March for Free Expression

The next phase

Monday, April 24, 2006

Weekend Meetings

The meetings on Saturday went well, with about 20 people attending the morning and afternoon sessions. A programme was worked out and a steering group constituted.

Full details about this will be posted on a new campaign website later this week. People who were unable to attend will have further opportunities to participate, both through the new website, a further meeting in London in about a month's time, and also in regional meetings that will be held for the many people for whom it is not convenient to travel to London.

We have also made provisional arrangements for an event in which the Danish cartoons will be displayed and debated.

Thanks to Conway Hall for the use of their facilities, and to those who attended the meetings and contributed so much to the future success of this campaign.

127 Comments:

Blogger publicansdecoy said...

Sorry I wasn't able to be there, but the notification came too late for me to pick it up. I hope I will be able to get involved in future work.

11:19 am  
Blogger CarnackiUK said...

This report from Patrick Goodenough at Townhall.com underlines the urgent need for a campaign in support of Free Expression:

"Islamic groups and governments are pressing ahead with a campaign to have international organizations take steps, including legal ones, to provide protection for their religion in the wake of the Mohammed cartoon controversy. In a drive pursued largely away from the headlines, the Organization for the Islamic Conference (OIC) is promoting the issue at the United Nations and European Union, and having some success.
The executive council of the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) this month approved an agenda item entitled ‘respect for freedom of expression, sacred beliefs, values and religious and cultural symbols.’ Introduced by more than 30 Islamic states and the subject of considerable debate, the motion explicitly tied freedom of expression to ‘respect for cultural diversity, religious beliefs and religious symbols.’

...The UNESCO move is just the latest illustration of the way the OIC and its 56 member states are using the cartoon episode to apply pressure on the West to comply with Islamic norms… In another development, it was reported last week that E.U. bureaucrats are drawing up a ‘lexicon’ of terminology to use when referring to Islam. Words like ‘Islamist’ and ‘jihad’ are under review, as is the phrase ‘Islamic terrorism.’"

1:09 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Glad that the meetings went well, and good to hear that regional meetings will be considered in the future. However, I think that part of the responsibility to get organised is with us all. We cannot expect Voltaire to do all the work and take the initiative on everything. The more minds we have working on the Freedom of Expression cause (are we going to call it CAFÉ?) the more ideas we will generate and the more we will achieve. If we can grow locally, then we will be even more effective when we act together.

Those of us outside Greater London need to start thinking about how we can contribute and how we can organise in our areas and to post any ideas that they have on this.

I think it might be a useful starting point for people to indicate their region, i.e. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or English region based on Government Offices for the English Regions, see http://www.gos.gov.uk/national/, when they post. My region on this basis is Yorkshire and the Humber.

What do people think? Are there any other ideas or suggestions?

9:13 pm  
Blogger publicansdecoy said...

I live in London.

I wonder, to what extent do the aims of this campaign correlate with the Euston Manifesto?

11:34 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Updates on the debate can be found over on the MAC blog

4:38 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Publicansdecoy (of London). I see many common threads that weave and wind through the Euston Manifesto and CAFÉ and I agree with many of the Euston Manifesto’s aims and objectives.

However, I think that CAFÉ covers a broader swathe of the political spectrum; this is its greatest strength and will bring together people from many more backgrounds and political persuasions than the Euston Manifesto. I hope that both can work closely together and people can make valuable contributions to both.

We must work together and share ideas to achieve the aims that we have in common. We should of course avoid the ‘Life of Bryan” scenario of creating “splitters”. I think that left, right and centre have perspectives that can blend together and create a synergistic effect on the whole. We must never risk having “versions” of freedom of expression. CAFÉ can act as a focal point where people from the Euston Manifesto can exchange ideas and debate issues with other individuals and groups.

Ideas generate ideas and the more ideas that are fed into this debate the better because it produces a greater likelihood of creating something new, different, and innovative.

Regards - Aeneas (of Yorkshire… and Troy of course).

7:14 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Curious why Izzy's going all Gung-ho over this "Debate". I mean, with all the polemic the MfFE is engaging in...


Why is Peter Risdon doing this "debate"?

I think MfFE should start its own little "let's hound the PCC" and ask them to widen the scope of their work to cover not only the press but any mass-communication event like a religious sermon :).

Then I think we should motion to throw Izzy in jail because he clearly promoted terrorism against an identifiable group when he said we ought to drop walls on homosexuals :).

7:23 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Do we have any direction for further efforts? Where is the new website? Are the results of the weekend meetings a secret? Is this cause still going? Are we serious?

10:47 pm  
Blogger anton said...

Yes Peter, What is going on?

8:14 am  
Blogger A Nonny Mouse said...

Glad the meeting went well too.
Cant wait to see what we can do next

7:17 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Indeed what is going on, have you died a death yet.
love
Izzy

8:22 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

www.signs-on-the-horizon.blogspot.com

Another Ismeeal blog.

On it he states there is no need for an Islamic reformation because Islam and its texts do not support terror/jihad but he still fails to give us a full and detailed doctrine of real civility and peace that isn't depending upon them subjecting non Muslims based solely on his holy books.

9:12 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Nowhere did I say Islamic texts don't justify Jihad, of course they do. What I denied were that they could be used to justify the indiscriminate attacks on civilians.

"he still fails to give us a full and detailed doctrine of real civility and peace that isn't depending upon them subjecting non Muslims based solely on his holy books. "

The grammer is a bit off here, so please rephrase and i'll be happy to.

love
Izzy

6:07 am  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Izzy still prancing around in these rooms?

Voyeuristically reading comments :), in other peoples' spaces of course!

7:20 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Glad to see that Izzy hasn't lost his cutting sense of humour:

"The House proposes that Free Expression be regulated by the Proclamation of Global Civility"

a.k.a. "The House proposes that Free Expression be regulated by a bunch of religious nuts nominated by the MAC"

Yep that what I want to see the Izzy's of this world filter my news and media. Gee just think, after a while it could be just like Saudi.

We have advised the Oxford Secular Society to book a larger room as we have a large demand from people to attend on our side

I suppose that if 80% of the people there are from the MAC, the democratic progress must mean that they are right in everything that they say? “That’s democracy isn’t it?

In Islam we don't believe in holding personal grudges [snip]

I'm holding my sides, for I fear that they have split. Yeah, Izzy, yeah, you are right, Fatwa's aren't personal ... they are business init? It is just getting rid of someone that you don’t like.

The grammer is a bit off here, so please rephrase and i'll be happy to.

So civil, so civilized, such an impressive path of natural wisdom laid before us. One wonders how he can use phases like ... especially with people who are not interested in true dialogue or understanding but just in polemical showboating , post articles like WILL THE REAL PETER RISDON PLEASE STAND UP? and then claim In Islam we don't believe in holding personal grudges. He isn’t that keen in spelling Grammar or using capitalization correctly.

I'm beginning to wonder if Izzy was an immaculate birth, I believe that he was borne via a Christmas cracker.

Cheers,

TFI

9:34 am  
Blogger feste clown said...

On Fridays I'm usually having an after work drink or nine so I didn't pick up the 'confirmation' of the meeting until I logged on on Saturday - the day of the meeting. I don't know why there were NO UPDATES posted until the night before the event even though several people requests updates, and yes concerns too, as there was no sight nor sound from Peter. Here we are a week on from the meeting and no feedback/news/mins just back to where we started with TFI and Izzy having a public face-off (funny though it is).

In response to Aeneas: Do we have any direction for further efforts? Where is the new website? Are the results of the weekend meetings a secret? Is this cause still going? Are we serious?

I have absolutely no idea and I’m sure no-one else does either. Bun fight & bakery.
Upset? I’m furious.

11:49 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI,
FYI,

The debate attendence has been regulated as follows:
MAC can bring 20,
MFE can bring 20
other attendees can only be Oxford Students each of whom can bring one friend each.

TFI, how can u possibly pick me up on my spelling? Have u read some of your posts?

FYI a fatwa is the ruling of a Mufti on a religious issue which is not clear: it can be about any number of issues, from whether it is permissable to join one's prayers because of the constrictions of work shifts to whether one can break one's fast because one has to take anesthetic to have a filling done. A fatwa is not neccessarily a death sentance.

A grudge is an issue you have with someone at a particular time which you hold onto regardless for a lengthy period of time. We were annoyed with Peter when we posted that piece and since then we have said positive things about him for the positive efforts he has made.

TFI don't let your rancour towards me blind you from rational discourse.

Oh and Common Sense, get a life.

love
Izzy

2:43 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

borne for instance when you meant to write born

2:47 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Mr Clown,

I fully understand, I feel like I'm kicking a puppy that keeps wetting the carpet. Dumb, but still lovable.

Izzy:

grudge: noun a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury.

So you didn't hold a grudge against Peter because your resentment wasn't persistent after he made "positive efforts"?

Good job Peter did that or you might have forced been Un-Islamic by harbouring ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury ...

Oh and Common Sense, get a life.


Please, Izzy, be more Civil to Common Sense and Will B's grammar. Next you'll be claiming that an insult is a valid form of expression.

borne for instance when you meant to write born


I'm a dyslexic and I find it frankly offensive that you should highlight my disability in this case.

I'll swallow my anger at this and I wish upon you more civil discourse in the future ;-)

Cheers,

TFI

3:23 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Oh give over TFI

5:06 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Oh give over TFI

C'mon Izzy, admit it, you are quite prepared to use insults to make your point and you love to hold a grudge (see your attitude to Demark post the cartoons)

You get off your high horse and I'll remove this chip from my shoulder.

I think that my chip is quite safe.

Cheers,

TFI

5:49 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

check out the MAC blog for latest drama

6:42 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI
i do not advocate the use of insult to make a point even if my own personal conduct should have faltered at times.

We are not holding a grudge against Denmark, when they do the right thing, we'll embrace them again.

love
Izzy

7:09 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Feste clown, well said. I am completely frustrated by the lack of seriousness here. People who went to the meetings need to speak up as a matter of urgency. Did any aims and objectives arise from the fabled meetings? Do we have to go though some sort of elaborate initiation process to access the new website. Us ‘outsiders’ need to know whether or not we have to start a separate campaign so that freedom of expression can be adequately defended. FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

At the moment this campaign seems like a pointless game for armchair activists and people who like debating but don’t like doing anything. Please prove me wrong in this assessment because if this is true we have no chance of achieving anything. FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

We should be discussing a plan of action at this stage, not waiting for further instructions. We should be linking to current events and showing how they can be related to our cause. We should be considering the important issue of regional organisation. We should be building alliances with people in other countries who share our aims and co-ordinating our activities with them so that we have maximum impact. We should be lobbying MPs, and even raising issues as part of the local election campaign – free expression is important locally as well as nationally. With every silent day we are missing opportunities that could help to further our cause. FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

7:43 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

We should have a weekly poll on this blog that links free expression to current events.

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

8:11 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Izzy,

At what point did you think that you had a chance on winning this debate when surrounded by the cream of secular Britain's academic students and Dons?

I can just about see them saying "hey that crazy man with that crazy beard is right, if we throw out all acknowledged history, British culture, accept his argument that women are fully mature for sexual relationships at 9 years old in certain parts of the world, acknowledge that women occasionally need a good stoning to death as a lesson to others, give up on modern currency and go back to sliver and gold coins, tilt our head to the side slightly ... he is right!! Islam is the answer!!! VOTE FOR IZZY!!!"

If you want people to vote for you motion I suggest that we hold the debate in any religious place of worship, all the other groups are busting to get their religion protected by Law. Even Sciencetology.

Cheers,

TFI

9:24 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Aeneas:

Your grouping ought to think very strongly about strategy.

Questions have been raised several times on how to come up with united front on Free Speech and a common 'defense policy'.

I think that's the wrong approach.

The anti needs to be upped because Free Speech defends itself. Need only risk robbing it from the 'Izzys' of the workd and you'll see them back off.

Also, as I said before, the temperature needs to be raised on religious institutions.

12:18 am  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Izzy:

Aren't u tired of advertising for your website: I doubt anyone here is interested in your monologues.

Go get a following str8 from the stone ages, and have them take their pom-poms out for your 'Global Uncivility' movement.

12:21 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI,
we haven't cancelled the debate, we want it rescheduled so that it's fair. Then we'll see who will win the debate.

7:12 am  
Blogger feste clown said...

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

Elections on Thursday - anyone got anything planned? We should have had something in mind to highlight/demonstrate CAFE, plenty of media, politicians and the like.

More so than at the rally.

I really want to get behind this 100%, I’m stuttering somewhat over direction and formulating ideas into action but I have begun by deciding how best to use my vote.

Thursday brings an opportunity to speak to fellow voters, bring the issues of CAFÉ to the table, express concern over the future policies and hopefully win over a few to join the debate.

I will be doing my best, at least. No doubt I will look rather silly with my one man protest but what can I do?

Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.

8:31 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

i do not advocate the use of insult to make a point even if my own personal conduct should have faltered at times.

OK, so you seek to be divine but fail because you aren’t divine. Whereas I don’t seek to be divine at all, yet you wish for me to ruled by laws that enforce your sense of divine upon me. I have to be “Civil” to you about your religion at all times, whereas you only have to try to be Civil to me when your personal conduct isn’t “faltering”.

We are not holding a grudge against Denmark, when they do the right thing, we'll embrace them again.

But until they do you will maintain your grudge against them?

If it looks like a grudge, quacks like a grudge and fits the Oxford English dictionary definition of the word "grudge". It is a grudge.

If you are using a different dictionary definition of the word grudge, could you supply the name of this dictionary? Is it a translation problem from Arabic? In Islam is a “grudge” something different?

we haven't cancelled the debate, we want it rescheduled so that it's fair. Then we'll see who will win the debate.

But Izzy, you have already won: "toys thrown furthest from pram", "Highest Mountain constructed from molehill", "Storm most like Katrina found in a teacup" and "new definitions for old words." … you want more?

*TFI leaves Izzy the Imbecile alone for a minute*

I agree that we ought to do something other than lounge about in these comfortable sofas’s ridiculing the “Double I”. But I’ve no experience in creating political movements and I’m not putting myself forward to fill Peter’s boots. Nor do I think that they need filling at this time. Things aren’t moving as fast as you or I might like, but they aren’t at a complete standstill either.

Cheers,

TFI

11:18 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI,
it's so sad how you have become so bitter that your desire to be sarcastic and attempt to ridicule me has blurred your intellectual objectivity.

Never mind. I notice there has been no denial from this end about the whole vote rigging scandal.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

1:03 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

it's so sad how you have become so bitter that your desire to be sarcastic and attempt to ridicule me has blurred your intellectual objectivity.

I've plenty of objectivity, right now I'm objecting to your hipcrocasy, double standards and inability to accept the meaning of words.

For instance you claim that Islam should reject modernity dissolve states and return to it fundamental roots - yet you reject the label "fundamentalist".

You state that sex with 9 year girls isn't "paedophilia" when practised in Saudi or sub continental Africa.

You hold a grievance against Demark due to a perceived past misdeed, but refuse to call it a “grudge”.

You call prejudice against Muslims “racism” when Islam isn’t a race, it is an ideology.

How can anyone ever debate with you until we can agree a common language, terms and definitions?

Never mind. I notice there has been no denial from this end about the whole vote rigging scandal.

I thought it was a debate, not a competition. Did you think that there was some sort of prize at the end?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Because ... of ... what ?

Ismaeel, to me you are no different than a Jehovah’s witness that keeps appearing at my front door and demanding that I pay attention to the love he has of his prophet and respect him.

I don’t know why you really cancelled the meeting, but your actions and words leave no reason to respect you.

Cheers,

TFI

4:08 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Feste clown, good for you, at least one other person cares about this campaign; good luck with your efforts tomorrow. This campaign should have given its unique slant on the local elections. Our dithering and waiting for instructions has let us down. I wish that I had spoken up earlier, but I was waiting for leadership, rather than trying to create direction myself. Is there anybody else out there who supports this campaign. If so post your ideas urgently. FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!

5:31 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

In the coming weeks and months we need to move this campaign towards building a global network in support of free expression. In this era of globalisation we need to act globally, otherwise we will find ourselves at a serious disadvantage. Corporations benefit from this, we could too. We saw the global interest in our march early in the campaign and squandered the opportunity that existed then to build links with other groups. We should rectify that mistake now. We need to build an alliance with groups from around the world who support or are campaigning for freedom of expression and eventually create a single group that can lobby at the highest levels internationally. Someone else referred to the efforts of the OIC earlier in this thread. We need to build an organisation that is capable of lobbying the UN and the EU. This may seem a bit far-fetched at the moment when we appear, perhaps, to be down to single figures in terms of our support. However, there is still time, although not necessarily an infinite amount of it.

The new website should have a section devoted reporting on individuals and groups fighting for free expression around the world, as well as abuses by governments that seek to suppress it. Our situation is one where freedom of expression is been eroded; we need to find common cause with those in places where it barely exists in any meaningful form.

In terms of action, I think that we need to start contributing to blogs (in accordance with their individual posting rules and conventions) from around the world on which people are likely to sympathise with our cause. We should look at the websites of newspapers (again in accordance with their individual rules and conventions) around the world and look for opportunities to comment and draw international attention to our cause. We need to encourage people to set up local free expression movements and then link with ours. This last point obviously means that we need to know whether our campaign still exists so that we have a point of contact and an organisation to help integrate all groups into a single whole.

In short our group needs to formulate a foreign policy.

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING

6:08 pm  
Blogger feste clown said...

"However, there is still time, although not necessarily an infinite amount of it."

If anyone has read 'Freakeconomics' you will have read the piece referring to Terrorism and Heart Disease. It goes something like this...

If a politician needs a cash injection for a particular party drive for example on Terrorism or Heart Disease, which policy would generate the most amount of money? Terrorism. Why, because it can happen now whereas Heart Disease is seen to be long-coming, the result of bad live perhaps (our choice), sure it happens..but not for ages.
You are more likely to die of heart diseases than you are of a terrorist attack. Period.

So why does Terrorism generate the most money?

We can't do anything about terrorism but we can cut out the fatty chips and perhaps protect against a heart attack.

The proposed legislations against Freedom of thought of speech and expression is effecting us now. And here. It isn't a heart disease.

I do agree with you aeneas - whole-heartedly - but I'd like to think we'd have supporters a little closer to home, say, this blog?!

Can anyone else give us a little hope that you're listening?

F.

Oh and by the way, I love fatty chips!

8:17 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

TFI WROTE: I agree that we ought to do something other than lounge about in these comfortable sofas’s ridiculing the “Double I”. But I’ve no experience in creating political movements and I’m not putting myself forward to fill Peter’s boots. Nor do I think that they need filling at this time. Things aren’t moving as fast as you or I might like, but they aren’t at a complete standstill either.

TFI
Like you, I have no experience of creating political movements and I would like Peter to continue the good work that he started, but where is he? I think that two issues can contribute to a political movement. One is momentum and the other is initiative. At the moment I feel that we have lost both. Those who oppose free speech are relentless and any compromise or dithering is seen as weakness. We need constant motion.

I fully support Peter and this campaign desperately needs him. He demonstrated great courage in getting this campaign moving and taking responsibility for it; he deserves our support and respect. However, I think any campaign has to be more than one person. We need to keep things going and take some responsibility as individuals and as members of a team. The burden of responsibility as the public face of a campaign that many people view as controversial must be both daunting and draining. We need to show Peter that we are with him. I want this campaign to be an overwhelming success and this is my only reason for my agitation for action. TFI, you have been one of the leading contributors here so keep up the good work, you have my greatest respect. My point here is that we need to keep brainstorming and generating ideas.

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING

8:43 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

FESTE CLOWN WROTE: I do agree with you aeneas - whole-heartedly - but I'd like to think we'd have supporters a little closer to home, say, this blog?!

Good point, we had many supporters here once but I think that they are now waiting for inspiration and silence does not help create this? I am just brainstorming here to try to get things moving. Individuals need to think about how we can move forward. People have varied political interests, some like local politics, some like national politics, and others like international politics. This campaign provides enough scope to contribute at all these levels of analysis, and I believe that people should campaign on the level at which they feel that they can make the greatest contribution. We need to think locally, regionally, nationally and globally simultaneously. Free expression, in my opinion, is being besieged on all these levels and we must defend it on all of them.

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING

9:13 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Aeneas:

Am I chopped liver? :).

What thinketh you of upping the anti?

9:20 pm  
Blogger Unimpressed said...

Hello everyone,

I have heard from a little bird that Peter will soon start updating the blog. Don't panic. Should he not, and even if he does, keep up the good work!

Peace.

9:38 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

LOL.

Peter is like Muhammad. Without his direction, everyone is lost.

....oops... did I commit blasphemy there :).

9:41 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

COMMON SENSE SAID: What thinketh you of upping the anti?

What do you have in mind?

By the way, I have enjoyed reading your many contributions during the course of this campaign, sorry for not replying to your earlier comments on this thread.

9:54 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Aeneas: You say the sweetest things ;-)

I think that you are right that we risk losing all momentum and I'm really not sure what Peter is up to, he has taken on a demanding role that could very much be a full time job.

First thing I note is that people around me don't seem to understand, let alone value, freedom of expression. In an attempt to win hearts and minds we need to educate the people in what it is, how it came about, how its limits have changed over time.

Second think I note is that talking about the limits of free speech leads directly to a quagmire, is shouting "fire" in a cinema OK? Is shouting "kill [name \ race \ religion here]!" OK? How does slander fit in? copy write? Phone taps and Secret service? etc.

Therefore I see us needing to educate and enthuse the public. I agree that a "freedom watch" style web site / blog that documents the acts of oppressive governments and police, contains a few case studies that explain "how it went wrong in country X", tails from the oppressed etc.

One thing that we immediately need is to define terms, arguments, roles, labels and generally develop our own language for describing the problem space. We need be able to say “ah you mean like the insulted deity paradox”, and have a story / fable / example of that behaviour. To be a consistent movement we need to define where we agree, and where we don’t. We need a manifesto before we can face the world.

Young people are always against "The Man", at the moment that is Bush, Blair and the G8. How can we explain to our young that very right to protest is being eroded, and THAT is what they should protest against first?

Cheers,

TFI

10:05 am  
Blogger feste clown said...

http://www.oic-oci.org/

For Press Release by OCI regarding World Press Freedom Day.

I would comment but I am still seething!

10:26 am  
Blogger feste clown said...

Good blog (as per)TFI

TFI - "One thing that we immediately need is to define terms, arguments, roles, labels and generally develop our own language for describing the problem space"

Agreed. But to ensure a global audience and understanding we must wherever possible adhere to the current terms and labels as defined in say, Human Rights etc.

The muddy ground on terminology- for me anyway - is when 'Freedom' runs into and contradicts against 'human rights'. The definitions of speech that in one hand upholds your views as freedom of expression and on the other hand is deemed racist, bigotry slander, offensive etc are not clear.

Definitions on a postcard...

A protest throughout the streets of London, Europe, The States, calling for the right to protest will have more bearing and influence, I think, than specifically marching for one cause/opinion that they cannot identify with because they don't believe it affects them.

1:14 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI
You said:
For instance you claim that Islam should reject modernity dissolve states and return to it fundamental roots - yet you reject the label "fundamentalist".

* I have never asked anyone to reject modernity let alone Islam. Islam is Islam it is not sway to my reasoning. Modernity means many different things to different people, there are definitly some things that Islam rejects about modernity such as nationalism, statism, a banking system underpinned by usary yes. However there is much in modernity which is compatible with Islam like seperation of powers, rule of law, pluralism, tolerance etc.
As i've said before Fundamentalism was a word coined negativly to refer to Christians who stuck to the texts of the bible despite their inconsistancy with the findings of modern science. This does not apply to Islam.

You state that sex with 9 year girls isn't "paedophilia" when practised in Saudi or sub continental Africa.

*I've stated that our conceptions about what is childhood and how it should be defined are ones that are relativly recently formulated. Paedophilia is used to describe those who rape children, I have never supported that and never will.

You hold a grievance against Demark due to a perceived past misdeed, but refuse to call it a “grudge”.

*I don't hold a grievance against Denmark. There has been a past misdeed, it needs to be addressed, we're working to try and sort that situation out. If it was a grudge, we would say, well whatever they do we'll never forgive them.

You call prejudice against Muslims “racism” when Islam isn’t a race, it is an ideology.

* I didn't say prejudice against Islam is racism, in fact i have disapproved of saying prejudice against Islam is racism.

How can anyone ever debate with you until we can agree a common language, terms and definitions?

Never mind. I notice there has been no denial from this end about the whole vote rigging scandal.

I thought it was a debate, not a competition. Did you think that there was some sort of prize at the end?

*We were wrong about that and have issued a retraction and apology. Please see the MAC blog

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Because ... of ... what ?

Ismaeel, to me you are no different than a Jehovah’s witness that keeps appearing at my front door and demanding that I pay attention to the love he has of his prophet and respect him.

*I've never asked you to respect me.

I don’t know why you really cancelled the meeting, but your actions and words leave no reason to respect you.

* We cancelled the meeting for the reasons we gave, we decided to verify our suspicions and found out we were wrong, we're men enough to admit that and have done so.

1:57 pm  
Blogger feste clown said...

Just when I thought it was safe to blog...

2:07 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

There's a fly buzzing around this room.

I think we need to revoke Izzy's FE, or dedicate a spot for Izzy to post in, somewhere where he doesn't clutter comment sections when FE relevant discussions are taking place.


Aeneas:

I will post later some of my thougts. I tend for the most part to agree with Feste.

2:18 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Boyz, I’m sorry but I’ve got this mental problem of always needing to have last word. It has cost me many relationships, and a few jobs ;-)

*rolls up sleeves*

Izzy, Izzy, Izzy.

Please pick up a dictionary and check the meaning of these words you throw around.

As i've said before Fundamentalism was a word coined negativly to refer to Christians who stuck to the texts of the bible despite their inconsistancy with the findings of modern science. This does not apply to Islam.

OK, you don’t like the association with Christianity. I can understand that. Let’s remove the ambiguity and call you an Islamic Fundamentalist, after all they are seen in a far more positive light.

I've stated that our conceptions about what is childhood and how it should be defined are ones that are relativly recently formulated. Paedophilia is used to describe those who rape children, I have never supported that and never will.

Paedophile, noun a person who is sexually attracted to children.

You will note there is no mention of rape in there, nor a locale specification for where the word applies. If you desire to ahve sex with a child you are called Paedophile when using the English language.

I don't hold a grievance against Denmark.

Grievance noun. a real or imagined wrong or other cause for complaint or protest, esp. unfair treatment: failure to redress genuine grievances. An official statement of a complaint over something believed to be wrong or unfair: three pilots have filed grievances against the company. S feeling of resentment over something believed to be wrong or unfair: he was nursing a grievance.

In what way does the above definition not describe Islam’s and your own relationship with Denmark?

There has been a past misdeed, it needs to be addressed, we're working to try and sort that situation out. If it was a grudge, we would say, well whatever they do we'll never forgive them.

If you pick up your dictionary you will find that the definition of a “grudge” is not something that is eternal or irrational. A grudge is something that you can lose once the grievance has been addressed.

I think that you might be thinking of “irrational hatred” which might be better described as a “feud”, which is something that is highly popular in Arabia. The hatred and distrust between the Shias and Sunnys must represent one of the ultimate feuds ever.

I didn't say prejudice against Islam is racism, in fact i have disapproved of saying prejudice against Islam is racism.

I must have missed that post, I remember you writing “its an interesting question actually, do Muslims represent a race. The dictionary describes a race as ...” which would imply that you do actually have a dictionary, you just choose to not to use it.

We were wrong about that and have issued a retraction and apology. Please see the MAC blog

Yeah I saw that, you just toys out of the pram AGAIN. I suspected it was more to do with not having any mates to join you in Oxford and you panicking at the last moment. But that's just my opinon.

I've never asked you to respect me.

You’ve asked me, and the rest of the world, to respect your beliefs. I fail to see the difference between that, and you asking me to respect you.

We cancelled the meeting for the reasons we gave, we decided to verify our suspicions and found out we were wrong, we're men enough to admit that and have done so.

Yeah, Norman, of course that was the reason, it was “rigged”. BTW "we're men enough", over looking the pural you used there for a moment, are there no women in your group?

Finally, Izzy, if you want to chat to me as much you evidentially do, why don’t you put the comments back on your blog?

Buzz, buzz …

Cheers,

TFI

4:34 pm  
Blogger publicansdecoy said...

>>FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING

Aeneas,

Sorry for not giving this site much attention recently. There's been a number of other things I've been focussing on, but I do still check in and read. I'm not sure about posting further ideas on here, as without any kind of direction and leadership for this campaign, it's just a talking shop in an anonymous corner of the internet. If Peter can't be bothered with this thing anymore, then why should we?

4:49 pm  
Blogger Paul Bell said...

Election Day in some parts. If you have not voted, make sure you vote for a candidate who believes in free expression. Don't waste your vote. Meanwhile, we need to find Peter!

4:58 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

If Peter can't be bothered with this thing anymore, then why should we?

If that is the case, then he need give up this blog to another group that might be able to further its cause.

Cheers,

TFI

5:02 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

TFI,
u want the last word, u got it.

As for me, this is my swan song on this blog, i know i have retired and comeback more times than Mohammed Ali, but now i'm out for good.

Take care

love

Izzy

6:54 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

PUBLICANSDECOY SAID... If Peter can't be bothered with this thing anymore, then why should we?
…perhaps we believe in freedom of expression more than he does. Are you willing to give up the right to free expression just because one person appears to be having second thoughts about its merits. Do you want the right to express yourself or do you just want to be a ‘good boy’ and leave it to the people in Westminster who call themselves politicians? Active political participation is more important than voting. If you think that all you can do is decide to express yourself is choose between a number of unsatisfactory parliamentary candidates listed on a ballot paper then you might as well be choosing between communist party nominees in the People’s Republic of China. I think that in your heart you do believe in freedom of expression, and are as frustrated as the rest of us in the “action faction”.

We need to encourage people to come back who were here in the beginning but who Peter alienated by implying that they were not welcome; what happened to that Danish group who had various allegations levelled against it? As I said before we need to spread our message in other blogs. We need to build back what we have lost through inactivity. We then need to move beyond the blogosphere with community free expression groups where we can brainstorm and plan in private without risk that the thought police will shoot us down. When we do this we can organise a proper movement with a defined membership with subscriptions and the like and from there we can elect a proper leadership and develop a proper organisation that is not just a talking shop. We need a leadership and not a leader. If you believe in free expression then say your say, your ideas and insights are just as important as anyone else’s.

I think that soon, those of use who believe in this cause will have to take the plunge and start exchanging email addresses and discussing the way forward in private. This will obviously require a great deal of trust to be built up as we will have to reveal ourselves from our blog masks to people we do not know. This will take a great leap of faith. How do we go about ensuring security?

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING

7:18 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

Izzy:

Why compare yourself to Muhammad Ali- aim higher!

Think of your departure as Muhammad's Hijra. Then you'll come back only to see the back of MfFE! Then you can shut us all up, banish us or... kill the lot of us.



Aeneas:

I promise, I will add some thougths.

7:52 pm  
Blogger anton said...

Peter has abandoned us! I was so enthusiastic at the start of this movement, was dismayed at his attitude before the march, which alienated many people, am disgusted at his lack of feedback. Now we are going nowhere fast. We need some proper leadership, some proper organization. How can we arrange this? I would be happy to dedicate all my available time to assisting should someone take over the lead in this movement.

8:17 pm  
Blogger Common Sense said...

On Peter's Role

It is saddening to here some people suggest that Peter's absence is excuse enough for people not to bother. Everybody has a contribution to make, within their own means and capacity. It is by arguing points, by always challenging yourselves, your views, and reflecting that on the people and environments you are in.

There is no reason to speculate on the whereabouts of Peter. He may be busy. He might have lost interest. It does not matter- he has taken a courageous first step and it is up to everyone else concerned to take additional steps.


On Alliances

Whatever else one might say of Izzy's mental capacity, his "strength" is derived from the force of numbers. One needs only pay scant attention to the maneuveings of the fanatics to see precisely how they like to operate. Take for instance is "inspiring" letter to this Leftist group- drawing analogies between "his worldview", and how it shares a commonality with the Left.

People here must- again, within their own capacities, and political leanings, remaster those domains. The concept of Free Expression knows no political Left or Right, and where there is a waivering in the concept of Free Expression, or subordinating it to any external force, then arguments must be made to tackle that specific scenario. The MfFE must supercede any poltiical leanings, and see itself above and beyond political colour to be Universal. Setting limits, defining limits should not be the prerogative of group members. That's why I think it is wrong to put too much focus or attention on the political alliances that are formed. I saw too much chastising of BNP members- this makes people lose focus. MfFE or CaFE should be encouraging and promoting the rights of all Peoples to voice their opinions as long as it does not call for violence/removal of rights of others.

In this respect, this movement CaFE should be a superstructure that is very limited in scope, but crosses idealogical/racial/political barriers. There is a Euston Manifesto of disgruntled leftists out there. Let them do their job. There are Iranian groups disgruntled by the Shah. Gay groups. There are liberal Muslim groupings. Each group should be fighting within its own front. And this movement, CaFE, should be an umbrella group that covers all those people, but that does not take the color of any of these groups- nor should it concern itself with that.


On Persecution Syndrome, Religion and the Media

The greatest asset of successful political movement, once they've banded together, is Persecution Syndrome Propagation.

It is a strategy used successfully by all formal groups. MfFE should adopt the strategy. This is difficult because it is an umbrella group. But if we take on some of the ideas suggested by Aeneas, it can be a strongpoint.

We can begin by enunciating and compiling, on this website instances where there is a violation of Free Speech, and demonstration of where this has led to the violation of human rights and dignity. Though this movement's voice pales in comparison to the thundering of the various lobby groups, it is truly- and not a matter of strategy definition- the group that is most often truly victimized. Perhaps, we can start by creating a website, whereby various people can get log in accounts, and adding instances of FE violation leading to HR violation. Can we determine a good way of proceeding with generating such a web site? Sir Percy had his website. Not sure if it was blog-format. But certainly worthy of looking into inheriting a bit of his work there.

The biggest and most important aspect of this strategy is to take a more pro-active role in holding religion accountable. As a strategy, this is a sensitive topic, because it can backfire. But that should not hold people back.

Specifically, if News media is a powerful tool in informing peoples' views, and should be regulated/watched, then should other mediums of mass communication that have a very strong influence on the behaviour of people. I speak specifically about religious sermons.

I don't know who we can approach about this, but a good place to start is to write a letter, and perhaps, have it signed by many people, to increase the coverage of the PCC (or whatever they are called) to include religious sermons, and religious print. Every action undertaken by the Izzys in this world must be returned in kind, but in order to do so, the appropriate framework must exist- which does not currently exist: Religious groups/organizations have a special status, that urgently needs to be cut down to size.

Freedom of belief/faith should not be equated with Freedom of any Organized religion, which combines the power of mass media, with Faith. Freedom of Personal faith is synomymous with Freedom of Expression. Freedom of Organized religion should not have more weight than CaFE. Should the legalese not account for that, then CaFE should register itself as a Religion, and exercise its right, as an entity, to defend the publication of the views of its members.

Like all lobby groups counting instances of Islamophobia, and homophia, and whatemecallitphobia, we need to develop an individualityphobia, a Westernophobia, a liberophobia. Again, these things don't have to be the specific work of CaFE but can be linked to it. Individual bloggers, academics, journalists, what have you should be able to link to the Phobia section in CaFE's website to register a complaint. That way, we can bank on the strength of many people with many diferent grievances: Peter Tatchell can complain about Izzy (or likeminded individuals) suggesting he should have a wall dropped on him, and Will B can register complaints about derogatory things Izzy says about Christianity. BNP member can issue complaints of immigrants mocking little social and ethical values amongst Britons. And we'll throw the Izzy's a bone where they can too complain about Islamophobia.

8:57 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Anton
The available evidence seems to back up your dark prognosis. I am not willing to be “the” leader but am willing to be part of a “leadership”. A single leader is strategically vulnerable in any case. We need volunteers now! It doesn’t matter if you are not based in the United Kingdom; we should be building a global movement anyway. Come on step up. Could we follow the Serene Republic of Venice and create a “Council of Ten”?


Common Sense - brilliant post, I am glad you are with us in the "action faction" for free expression. I am trying to generate ideas, others should throw their ideas into the mix. Keep the ideas coming, we can then collectively review them and agree a way forward. We can make this campaign bigger and better than previously contemplated. I am beginning to feel that we are moving again!

9:18 pm  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Trying to stereotype mindsets in the MfFE space. Running with the CaFE concept I've tried to relate these stereotypes to items found in the CaFE. This is a very rough draft as I've not put much thought in this as yet.


CaFE Flavours:

Danish pastry - Doesn’t believe that any speech should be off limits. Thinks that shouting fire in a cinema should be allowed and that even Nazi’s should be allowed a political voice.

Tall White - Thinks that politicians, Judges, the Police and Unions and all be the target of offensive speech, but minorities shouldn’t ever be targeted as it highlights their minority status.

Hot Cross Bun – Thinks that free speech should be applied to anything that is not divine.

Espresso - Thinks that the only thing that is off limits is the incitement to violence.

Double Espresso - Thinks that incitement to violence is OK, but if violence is enacted upon, the inciter should take responsibility for the actions of the incited.

De-café – Thinks that speech should not cause offensive to any group that might be offended. Much more interested in having a beer than worrying about society.

It would be great to see anyone and add to this: better descriptions; better shop items name; new stereotypes.

Cheers,

TFI

9:51 am  
Blogger publicansdecoy said...

Of course I still believe in freedom of expression! I feel strongly about it, which is why I would rather not just engage in leaving comments on some blog which only gets a few visitors these days. I think you're right, maybe it is time for us to take the plunge and start taking more action.

12:34 pm  
Blogger anton said...

publicansdecoy

You're right. Should we meet up?

5:46 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

CaFE Flavours:

Will allow visitors to the blog to identify their position in the spectrum and that of other bloggers. Also a bit of fun to lift our spirits.

A couple of additions:

Beer and Sandwiches– Strictly no criticism of Tony Blair, New Labour, or any of its policies. No excuses for talking “off message”!

Green Tea – philosophies, religions, or ideas can be criticised and discussed; but no incitement to violence and no racism.

5:56 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Publicansdecoy - Your strong commitment to this cause is obvious, and I apologise if my remarks came over as criticism as this was definitely not intended; my statements on this thread are an attempt get things moving. Personally I share your disappointment as to how things have turned out. However, as we have seen on this thread there are people who share our passion for the cause. If we can motivate each other and share our ideas we can build something, even if it takes a long time. We all need to contribute, perhaps our apparently leaderless campaign can be an exercise in true democracy.

6:56 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

A couple of campaign ideas:

10 Point Action Plan: Post 3 priorities for the campaign; here are some to get the ball rolling:

1. Build up membership
2. Design a campaign strategy
3. Generate ideas for action

We can then put them all together, fine tune them and produce a top 10. We can the develop a strategy based on these ideas.

Broad Areas For Contributions So Far (let’s have some more ideas to add to the list – if we have a reasonable number of visitors/contributors to the blog we should have the early makings of a campaign):
1. CaFE flavours
2. 10 Point Action Plan

Shall we set a time for one of us to post a comprehensive list of suggested ideas, say the end of the weekend? (or is this too soon?). What do people think?

7:01 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Ismeeal, interesting that you totally ignore the very clear point I made by claiming you can't understand a basic sentence, odd tactic, I haven't seen that one used before.

By the way... it is grammar .

Personally, I think we have problems with direction here because Peter is really the only one that can update the blog.

7:51 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Broad Areas For Contributions So Far:
1. CaFE flavours
2. 10 Point Action Plan
3. Blog/Website “key holders” for site maintenance (was that the point you were making will b? - good point in any case)does anyone know if anything on this issue was discussed in the meetings?

8:23 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Some more ideas that I came up with. More lists I’m afraid!

(1) Division of labour - practical groupings for members of the campaign:

“Blog Scouts” – those who search for blogs and websites, etc. where we can contribute and highlight the existence of our group.

“Regional Officers” – volunteers who are willing to act as focal points in different parts of the country.

“News Hounds” – those who keep an eye on news stories on which we can offer a free expression angle.

”Free Speech Watchers” – lookouts locally, nationally and globally for abuses against free speech.

Can people think of any other aspects of division of labour? If so post them.

(2) Membership drive – who can we approach to join our campaign?

Local, overlapping networks – friends, relatives, colleagues, political associates, friends of friends, other members of clubs and societies of which campaigners participate, etc.?

Internet – other bloggers and websites?

Previous contributors to this blog?

Organisations that gave support before the rally?

Can people think of any other aspects that relate to potential members of this campaign? If so post them.

If the above ideas are far-fetched or simply wrong then I’m sorry, I don’t really have much experience of this sort of thing. I’m just a concerned citizen.

9:35 pm  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

There are some great ideas here!

However, a Blog is not an ideal place for discussion.

A Forum would be much easier for everyone.

I just happen to have a 'CaFÉ' forum that I created earlier!!!

Link:

http://freeexpression.17.forumer.com

Please drop by and try it out.

I hope to see you all soon!

6:45 pm  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

aeneas

Congratulations on being the first!

We need ALL of you on there to get a dialogue going.

Please let everyone know.

11:38 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

Sir Percy

Thanks for coming to the rescue; I thought we were about to sink. We can take things forward now. Other bloggers please join Sir Percy’s CaFE Forum.

Aeneas

11:48 pm  
Blogger PHOEBE said...

Sir Percy

I have registered as Phoebe but have difficulty logging on. What am I doing wrong?

8:59 am  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

I can confirm that you are now a forum member Phoebe.

When you click on 'Log in' near the top of the screen, make sure you enter your Username and Password in the same 'case' (i.e. upper or lower) that you registered them initially.

Any further problems, please email me at sirpercy_875@hotmail.com and I can reset your password for you.

I hope to see you soon!

9:29 am  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:30 am  
Blogger aeneas said...

sir percy - the CaFE Forum is certainly more versatile than the blog format. It is strange when you first use it because it’s a different type of interface. I like the way that information can be exchanged via private messages (pm) or by email (if you make you email address available). Also interesting article, under the ‘off topic’ area (where members can talk about whatever they like), on “The Delphi Technique” – I would guess that some on this blog were using this technique, or perhaps trying to.

I hope that all visitors to this site who still think that free expression is worthy of their support come over and join the CaFE Forum, even if they are disappointed and frustrated at how the campaign on this blog appears to have slowed down.

Bloggers, see sir percy’s link to the CaFE Forum in one of his posts above, and let's take this campaign forward.

FELLOW BLOGGERS – POST SOME IDEAS ON THE CAFE FORUM AND GET THINGS MOVING!

7:22 pm  
Blogger anton said...

Unfortunately, I'm still unable to log in to the forum! What am I doing wrong!

4:01 pm  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

Anton,

You have to 'Register' first.

The Register link is near the top of the CaFÉ Forum screen, on the right.

I hope to see you there soon!

SirP.

5:24 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Guys you've been beaten to it:

http://www.article19.org/about/index.html

9:36 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Anyone out there?

3:21 pm  
Blogger aeneas said...

I'm here but the lights have gone off so I can't see you! Did we pay the electricity bill?

I'm going off to the CaFE forum: http://freeexpression.17.forumer.com/ where there is some stuff on Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the da Vinci Code, building a campaign for free expression, freedom of expression and the Internet, and the European Union and Freedom of Expression. I'll have a look at the Talk Veritas forum http://talkveritas.7.forumer.com/index.phpas as well, there seems to be some activity there.

Will_B see ya in the light.

7:08 pm  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

CaFÉ FORUM UPDATE

The CaFÉ forum didn't really attract enough members to be useful at this stage.

Most of the members now post on my political forum, Talk Veritas, which shares a similar stance.

It can be accessed using Aeneas' link or by visiting:

www.talkveritas.com

Veritas is latin for truth - something lacking in British politics.

2:10 pm  
Blogger Pub Philosopher said...

Have you seen this?

Book burning returns to the UK.

http://pubphilosopher.blogs.com/pub_philosopher/2006/07/book_burning_pl.html

10:37 am  
Blogger Sir Percy said...

CaFÉ News
=========

Many of you will be aware that moves are afoot to look at the possibility of creating an international advocacy group to oppose further restrictions of our Free Speech and Freedom of expression.

A few of us here in the UK are currently looking to produce a 'statement of aims' which will be applicable to the widest number of people here.

Please contact me at Talk Veritas (www.talkveritas.com) or the CaFE Forum if you would like to involved in this project.

SirP.

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12:36 am  
Blogger Snakelette said...

Sorry to be controversial, but really it would be good to demonstrate that CAFE means business to include in their campaigns also for the release of those imprisoned as a result of the anti-cartoon rally.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6236730.stm

The actual threats made at the rally were so vague and general that it is an abuse of the "incitement to murder" laws to prosecute them under it.

Of course, this freedom would also apply to those who say "Bomb bomb Muslims" as well. Supporting someone's right to say something does not in any way imply agreement with their statement.

6:13 pm  
Blogger Snakelette said...

Sorry to be controversial, but really it would be good to demonstrate that CAFE means business to include in their campaigns also for the release of those imprisoned as a result of the anti-cartoon rally.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6236730.stm

The actual threats made at the rally were so vague and general that it is an abuse of the "incitement to murder" laws to prosecute them under it.

Of course, this freedom would also apply to those who say "Bomb bomb Muslims" as well. Supporting someone's right to say something does not in any way imply agreement with their statement.

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3:17 pm  
Blogger 冰冰有理 said...

Man proposes, God disposes...................................................

8:49 am  
Blogger 終於呀 said...

你要保守你的心,勝過保守一切,因為一生的果效是由心發出........................................

12:15 pm  
Blogger 毅力 said...

狗健康
寵物床

4:29 am  
Blogger 珍雅 said...

我們唯一需要恐懼的事,是恐懼本身........................................

2:00 am  
Blogger 吳怡迪 said...

haha~ funny! thank you for your share~ ........................................

5:05 am  
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4:11 pm  
Blogger 美岑 said...

笑話精華~輕鬆一下~
孫悟空為什麼能大鬧天宮,而打不過諸多妖精?
哭笑不得的十二件事
浪漫一點行不行
校園尷尬事件大全(爆笑)
校園寢室騷擾電話

3:11 am  
Blogger 蘇pet0701em_halvorsen said...

TAHNKS FOR YOUR SHARING~~~VERY NICE ........................................

4:14 am  
Blogger Glennie9654 said...

Actions speak louder than words. ........................................

4:11 am  
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6:55 pm  
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5:07 am  
Blogger 健豪 said...

心中有愛,才會人見人愛。........................................

5:39 am  
Blogger NedaD承蓁 said...

Many a little makes a mickle............................................................................

2:48 pm  
Blogger AlysiaDraeger0417永瑞 said...

我來給你支持鼓勵~祝你事事如意~~..................................................

4:08 am  
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1:14 pm  
Blogger 俊偉 said...

Keep in contact. Good Luck..................................................

7:59 am  
Blogger 芸茂 said...

感謝您費心的分享您的生活!讓我也感同身受!

11:23 am  
Blogger 智能智能 said...

死亡是悲哀的,但活得不快樂更悲哀。......................................................................

2:52 am  
Blogger 江婷 said...

成熟,就是有能力適應生活中的模糊。.................................................................

11:04 am  
Blogger 郁雯郁雯 said...

人有兩眼一舌,是為了觀察倍於說話的緣故。............................................................

3:45 am  
Blogger 夏康如 said...

It takes all kinds to make a world.............................................................

7:57 pm  
Blogger 姵潔姵 said...

每次看完你的文章,總是回味許久,要經常發表喔。..................................................................

1:54 am  
Blogger 原秋原秋 said...

支持你就對了!..................................................................

2:07 am  
Blogger JasonBirk佳琪 said...

After a storm comes a calm...................................................................

3:07 am  
Blogger 懿綺懿綺 said...

優質的好部落格,當然要留言支持鼓勵鼓勵!............................................................

9:14 am  
Blogger 魏江伶魏江伶 said...

Man is not made for defeat. A mean can be destroyed but not defeated..................................................................

12:19 am  
Blogger 莊雅和莊雅和莊雅和 said...

人生有些波折,才能有些成長,所以不論順逆,凡是成長、成功的助緣,都應該心存感激。..................................................

8:40 am  
Blogger 韋以韋以 said...

God helps those who help themselves...................................................

3:01 am  
Blogger 正玲宇軒 said...

人類的聰明,並非以經驗為依歸,而是以接受經驗的行程為依歸。..................................................

11:32 pm  
Blogger 吳怡君吳怡君 said...

Learning makes life sweet.

1:13 pm  
Blogger 少明秋菁 said...

看著你的BLOG 好多朋友都回應 真厲害............................................................

2:41 am  
Blogger 宛淑芳真 said...

讚啦~~多謝分享!!>ˍ<............................................................

12:59 pm  
Blogger 偉曹琬 said...

請繼續發表好文!加油加油加油!............................................................

8:17 am  
Blogger 凱v胡倫 said...

生存乃是不斷地在內心與靈魂交戰;寫作是坐著審判自己。............................................................

8:10 pm  
Blogger 劉王育正劉王育正 said...

活是一種鍛鍊靈魂的東西..................................................................

5:17 am  
Blogger 佳張張張張燕張張張張張 said...

人不能像動物一樣活著,而應該追求知識和美德............................................................

6:04 am  
Blogger 王辛江淑萍康 said...

生存乃是不斷地在內心與靈魂交戰;寫作是坐著審判自己。..................................................

11:26 pm  
Blogger 瑰潼 said...

卡爾.桑得柏:「除非先有夢,否則一切皆不成。」共勉!.................................................................

7:34 am  

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