March for Free Expression

The next phase

Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Boycott Us!

The organisers of the Berlin rally that will coincide with ours on the 25th March have issued a statement on their website:
Da unsere zeitgleich demonstrierenden Freunde aus London die nationale Fraktion bitten, ihre Demo zu boykottieren, ergeht auch unsere Aufforderung an alle strammen deutschen Nationalisten:
Boykottiert uns, wenn Ihr Nazis seid!
The babelfish translation isn't too great, and my German is worse, but this boils down to:
Since our friends from London have asked the national socialists to stay away we say to all German nationalists: Boycott us too!
Shhh... Listen carefully...If German Nazis react in the same way certain members of the BNP have here on our site you'll hear the distant sound of the stamping of little feet.

13 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a Berlin-based Discussion-Forum to talk about all the actions around the 'March for Free Expression':
ADF- Berlin (https://www.adf-berlin.de/wbblite/index.php)

1:29 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Muslim groups will be told that this is NOT a march for free expression. It's a march against Islam.

If the organisers are saying that they want the people to stay away from the event based on their political beliefs, it means the organisers not only believe in the free expresion of the Danish cartoons, but the actual content of the Danish cartoons.

I would rather be on the side of the Islamists, because the march is nothing to do with freedom of speech.

If the organisers of this march have made POLITCAL statements against the BNP AND it's members.

If the organisers of this march are going to use this march to push THEIR POLICITAL VIEW of the BNP, then EVERYONE should boycott the march.

The organisers have been asked many times, to withdraw their POLITCAL remarks regarding the BNP and simply ask that marchers refrain from racism and hatred.

Instead the organisers of this march, decided, without provocation to slur the BNP and it's members of racism.

We cannot trust the organisers of this march, to be politically neutral when it comes to organising a march for universal and basic human right of free speech.

It's an abuse of trust, to go political on an event like this.

3:39 pm  
Blogger Voltaire said...

BNP member 1: I know, let's try to drive our point across by being repetitive.

BNP member 2 : Repetitive?

BNP member 1: That's right, repetitive.

BNP member 2 : So to drive our point across, we should be repetitive?

BNP member 1: Yes. If we are repetitive, we will drive our point across.

BNP member 2 : What if we are answered?

BNP member 1: That doesn't matter. Ignore it and just be repetitive.

BNP member 2 : I see. So, in order to drive our point across...

(continued ad infinitum, apologies to Craig Brown)

3:55 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nazism, Islamofascism, Nationalsocialism. You can't subsume these things under the term expression or opinion. It's not an opinion, it's an outrage and freedom-loving people can't allow Nazis, Islamofascists, Nationalsocialists, in few words the enemies of a free world, to take part in a march for free expression. It's as
simple as that!

4:05 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"BNP member 2 : What if we are answered?"

1. I'm not a BNP member.
2. I'm a British Nationalist.
3. I answer people properly when challenged, unlike you.

I have asked you many times, WHY THE NEED TO GO POLITICAL AGAINST THE BNP?

You said you wanted NO RACISM.

Why didn't you simply ask for NO RACISM and HATE, rather than single out the BNP?

It's because you can't be trusted to keep your POLITICS out of a very simple free speech issue.

Your "logic" is crazy. Unprovoked, you are saying that people must not be allowed to politcally hijack your event, but you are politically hijacking it yourself, by making loads of statements, that assumes BNP members automatically have some kind of in-built racism.

All I've asked you to do, politely, is to pack up the anti-BNP (And anti any other political party) and you would be able to get many more people there.

There are people like me that really want to go on this march, but we feel insulted by the way that you are assuming that we would do anything different on the march than the rest of us.

People aren't that stupid mate. They will see through your political point scoring, so please pack it all in and just make a blanket statement about racism not welcome, without the anti-BNP rhetoric.

4:11 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Nazism, Islamofascism, Nationalsocialism. You can't subsume these things under the term expression or opinion. It's not an opinion, it's an outrage and freedom-loving people can't allow Nazis, Islamofascists, Nationalsocialists, in few words the enemies of a free world, to take part in a march for free expression. It's as
simple as that!"

I've met BNP members who fought in the last war for us. If you called them a Nazi, they would no doubt kick you in the shin.

If you think that people are Nazi's because of their political beliefs, that's your POLITICAL OPINION and you are obviously incapable of seperating the concept of free speech from your own politics.

This New Labour government is taking away our rights by the week. Who's asking New Labour types to stay away from the march?

4:15 pm  
Blogger Voltaire said...

4:05 anonymous, we're making a point of ignoring completely the political platforms of our supporters. This isn't about whether we agree with each other, it's about whether we can disagree peacefully and not seek to inhibit anyone's freedom of expression, including the BNP and Islamofascists.

The point is that the BNP have a history of supporting political violence ("with well directed boots and fists" ©Nick Griffin). That makes them incompatible with our platform.

If some Islamofascists decided to come along to uphold the right of others to free expression, we'd think that was great.

Other anonymous, I've answered this over and over again, the answer is always the same. The BNP have advocated political violence. That's the problem. True, I don't like their racism and think it's important that this isn't associated with our campaign, but the blocker is the violence. After all, upholding the freedom of expression of those with whom you agree is meaningless. It only really counts when you disagree with someone but still advocate their right to speak. We do this. We fully support the BNP's right to speak. We do not, however, want them associated with this campaign because they have advocated violence.

That really is all there is to it.

4:22 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Voltaire,

I'm sorry, but the BNP and political violence is just YOUR POLITCAL OPINION.

The whole reason why the BNP stays off the streets (Except when canvassing) is because they do not want to be associated with any street violence.

Over the last 12 years, again and again and again. The BNP has condemmed politcal violence. Every BNP meet I have ever attented, they have stressed, again and again and again, that violence is not the answer and violent people are not wanted or needed.

So I'm sorry, but you know and I know, the party has NO POLICIES that harbours or entertains violence. If it did, it would not be allowed to operate as a legitimate political party. It operates within the law of the land. That's not my opinon, it's a matter of fact. So if you've got information about the BNP harbouring or supporting violence, you have the number of your local police station.

In the mean time, it would be rather productive and good for the cause of free speech if you could not show so much fragrant political bias.

Thanks.

4:57 pm  
Anonymous Alan said...

Im not a nationalist, and in fact I completely disagree with it, but that doesn't mean that you should prevent them from comeing to a protest that is nothing to do with nationalism. No violence - good. Protests focused on free speech (ie no BNP banners or whatever) - great. But no BNP members? Thats blatent descrimination, without fair grounds. As long as they don't proselytize nationalism, and focuss on freedom of speech, that is fine. If they try to add messages to the protest, then ask the police to remove them.

7:40 am  
Blogger Voltaire said...

Alan, you are not one of the trolls, so: "The point is that the BNP have a history of supporting political violence ("with well directed boots and fists" ©Nick Griffin). That makes them incompatible with our platform."

By ©Nick Griffin, I mean that this is a quotation from him. He is the leader of the BNP. They advocate political violence. How many times do we have to repeat that this is the reason why we have adopted the policy we have?

Now, you must understand trolling and political sculduggery. We have made the statement we wished to make. Some BNP members have been trying to extract a particular form of words from us to welcome them not just as individuals but specifically as BNP members and white nationalists. They have their own reasons for doing this. They are also about as subtle as a pile of bricks.

7:49 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Alan, you are not one of the trolls, so: "The point is that the BNP have a history of supporting political violence ("with well directed boots and fists" ©Nick Griffin). That makes them incompatible with our platform."

By ©Nick Griffin, I mean that this is a quotation from him. He is the leader of the BNP. They advocate political violence. How many times do we have to repeat that this is the reason why we have adopted the policy we have?

Now, you must understand trolling and political sculduggery. We have made the statement we wished to make. Some BNP members have been trying to extract a particular form of words from us to welcome them not just as individuals but specifically as BNP members and white nationalists. They have their own reasons for doing this. They are also about as subtle as a pile of bricks.


If you wanted to have been sutble while keeping unity, you could have simply posted

"Racism will not be welcome at this march.

Violence will not be tolerated at this march"


It would have served your purpose and you would have achieved unity.

You didn't. You decided to score political points and polticalise everything. You think that by dissing groups like the BNP, you are going to have many readers shouting "Right on" and come out in support.

You see, what I find deeply offensive, is that you are doing your best to popular with certain people and not others. I.E People who are LIKE YOU!

You can keep repeating that the BNP are "violent" and "racist" all you want. It's your site. But the more you do so the more you will show yourself up for being an indivdual who can't handle this free speech march professionally by seperating the politics from the free speech issues.

No one is trolling, I'm being serious.

If you said that "Paedophiles aren't welcome" - I would have asked you to say that paedophiles are welcome. You didn't. You said that British / White nationalist types aren't welcome. That is the reason why I'm asking you to say that they are welcome. So please stop "trolling" and acting as if this is some lightening bolt from the blue. It was you who started making unprovoked and needless political statements about the BNP.

The irony of it all, is that when you do have your march, you will find most of it is left wing student types, all having w*nk circles in the pubs afterwards, talking about how right wing types don't march for peoples rights, when it was a left wing socialist you made the whole march political from day 1.

12:54 pm  
Anonymous Alan said...

I agree with the last post, and for this reason Philosophy Forge will NOT be supporting this march.

2:00 pm  
Blogger Voltaire said...

Alan, it's up to you whether you support this march, but the reason you give is misleading. The BNP is the only party, to my knowledge, to advocate political violence. If we learn that another does the same, we'll ban that too, wherever it lies on the political spectrum.

After an electoral success in London, Nick Griffin, still the BNP leader, said: "The electors of Millwall did not back a Post-Modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan "Defend Rights for Whites" with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate".

This is the ONLY reason they have been banned. We are SPECIFICALLY advocating a political environment in which debate, agreement and disagreement take place without violence.

What's more, we have made this clear over and over again on this website. While we have said the BNP is racist, this has only been in passing and is not the reason for the ban, though from the quote above it is plainly true.

2:39 pm  

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