March for Free Expression

The next phase

Friday, March 24, 2006

The Big Day

It's here.

We've had our differences and sometimes these have been forcefully expressed. That's a sign of passion and commitment. There has been some of the best debate in the blogosphere here, and some of the ugliest. That's the sign of a powerful campaign.

Thank you, everyone who has helped bring us to this stage. There have been some controversial decisions. Thank you to everyone who has attacked, and defended, these. It takes commitment to argue your case rather than walk away.

We will all meet tomorrow, and we will be in full view of the world. At the start of this campaign, people feared we would not be covered by the media. In fact, satellite television trucks, film crews and reporters will be there. Media groups from all over the planet have been in touch and arranged interviews. That's happened because of your involvement.

Enjoy tomorrow. It's our day.

183 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

go fee speech!

10:56 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but remember!!! don't attack the set of philisophical and political ideas of Islam!!!

Go DHIMMIS
YEAH

11:03 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Peter pleasewith draw your comment on the cartoons, it has damaged your credability and the campaigns credability. rescue the situation please. :-/

11:09 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, whatever. Just ignore that rather belligerent elephant in your living room - move along, nothing to see here...

11:13 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Yeah, whatever. Just ignore that rather belligerent elephant in your living room - move along, nothing to see here...

what? O.o

11:15 pm  
Anonymous Deflated said...

Thank you Peter. Yes you are right, there have been differences and much passion has been aroused regarding this. Was that all part of the plan perhaps? (asking people not to bring cartoons,and in doing so,enraging people who would otherwise "not" have brought any,to "now" bring them?). Reverse Psychology? Anyway,although I also have reservations regarding the diluting of the march now compared to the promises of making a firm stand againts religious intimidation,I am still going. Hopefully it will not be a lukewarm affair, but something noticed fairly prominently by the media,instead of just a few lines somewhere. Time will tell if your U-turn damaged things.

11:17 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

I must commend Peter's efforts so far. Him and the team have put a lot of work in for this and I must say that it may be less organised than our opponents but it has a real sence of achivement attached to it, that we are getting peoples attention with it. I hope this proves to be the beginning of something meaningful, not just a one off that goes baddly.

11:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will be going to the march denouncing any set of ideas i wish...whethet guardian- global warming scare mongering communists or islamists who feel it necessary to kill islamic converts ,to Islam or muslims who fell fine about shooting little girls trying to get out of a burning building because they are 'immodestly dressed'.

BTW Islam and muslims are not a race, they are people who subscribe to a set of beleifs, and if i so wish, i will denounce them in the strongest terms necessary.

If the police arrest people with cartoons or pictures of mohammed, it will be the strongest evidence we have yet that we are living in a political correct police state.

remember an old man in a tweed jacket is as much as a threat as a gestapo agent on liberty!

Give me liberty or death!!!!!

-(Nothing in between peter!!!)

11:32 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope the march is a great success, and that every speaker from the platform (apart, naturally from your pet muslim) will denounce utterly the cop-out of the organisers over the cartoons which spawned the whole debate in the first instance.

Free speech is not being assaulted by some nameless force. it is being assaulted by religious groups who supress free speech with threads of murder and violence.

Those cartoons should be on every banner, with the plain text of the situation - "offended? so what! welcome to a free society!"

Still, despite the damage done to the cause by the organisers at the 11th hour, I wish you well.

11:56 pm  
Blogger Anonymous said...

I hope the march is a great success, and that every speaker from the platform (apart, naturally from your pet muslim) ...

Why apart from said "pet muslim?"

I couldn't blame said "pet muslim" from not showing up now given the comments on this blog ...

As far as I'm aware the only threat of violence came from the far right.

12:20 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pounce the cat says.
Thanks to the BBc i knew nothing about this until I went to the religious policeman blogg.
Rest assured I will be there.
Shame the BBC isn't promoting your march like they do everybody else.
What have they to fear?

12:39 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As far as I'm aware the only threat of violence came from the far right. "

please substantuiate!

what threat of violence and from whom?

Most of the people in support of this march are libetarians.

I am a right wing "extremist" and i consider the BNP your run of the mill socialists which they are.

The BNP have more in common with the labour party than extremist tories than me.

12:55 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Yay! I'm really excited.

Congratuations for getting us this far Peter, lets make tomorrow a cracker!

12:59 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

> ... I went to the religious
> policeman blogg.

The religious policeman rocks, I take much faith from his posts and views.

If only I knew who he was I'd carry him around on my shoulders!

1:02 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Hey Mr "Friendly"? Infidel, do think that there is room with that chip sitting there?

ho ho ho!

See you all tomorrow!

1:05 am  
Blogger Anonymous said...

Remember Peter mentioned getting a death threat on this blog when he asked people not to bring the cartoons - and it wasn't from a muslim - read the blog...

1:17 am  
Blogger St George said...

World War III starts today and there is some hope that I might my country back one day.

1:19 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you still haven't answered my question over said "pet muslim" - just because someone comes from an Islamic background means that they're not going to be behind the march? religious policeman also comes from an islamic background - in fact for all you know religious policeman and said pet muslim may be one and the same person???

1:23 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Interestingly, while I have been the focus of a lot of anger from some Muslims over my stance on these cartoons, my first death threat came as a response to the post below, obviously from a non-Muslim."

1:28 am  
Blogger Henrik said...

Here's why we *need* the Danish cartoons, in particular the bomb-head one:

Abu Laban, the most notorious of the muslims who traveled around slandering Denmark, and in general the best known imam in Denmark for years, was just shown on TV yesterday in a secret recording. He was actively discussing a so-called 'martyr action', intending to create as big a mess as possible.

The link between islam and terrorism is so thick, we need to point it out by any means possible - 'religious sentiments' and other excuses be damned. Banning relevant expressions like the bomb-head cartoon is a very bad move in the fight to stop terrorism.

3:34 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:58 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pakie's, sand niggers, towel heads, race traitors white muslims converts, pet muslims. Need not come.

that's what your free expression march has been all along. when the futher muslim holocaust museum is built, they will have your blog as an example of how things went bad.

5:05 am  
Blogger Henrik said...

Voltaire posted:

We've had our differences and sometimes these have been forcefully expressed. That's a sign of passion and commitment. There has been some of the best debate in the blogosphere here, and some of the ugliest. That's the sign of a powerful campaign.

OK, so we can't expect a reversal on the cartoon 'recommendation', nor any real explanation about the role of the MAC. That's shallow.

I think the word 'Dhimmitude' bears a few extra comments now. It stems from the fact that islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, better than anything else that might be concieved.
Islamic tradition therefore rates jews and christians second-rate citizens, subject to special taxes, systematic humilitation and severe discrimination. Hindis, buddhists etc. are considered to be lower than that.
One of the aspects of dhimmitude is the removal of any symbols, expressions or items deemed offensive to islam. The Buddha statues in Afghanistan is a big example, Piglet in the UK a small one.
Now, accepting the claims by MAC that this march is anti-islam unless certain rules are followed is a classical example of giving in to supremacist islamic thinking. By doing so, the us-against-them thinking (on any side) is adopted, and freedom of speech becomes relative. Sorry, can't see it any other way.

Some points:

- Dealing with islamic organisations or persons can be really tricky. We've seen how the MAC managed to water out the purpose of this march. Or watch Tariq Ramadan, who found himself in trouble in Geneva for speaking with a forked tounge. After three books were published about this, he managed to become special advisor to Tony Blair instead! Giving 'little' concessions to these people can be tricky to handle, to say the least.

- Solicitating donations requires a really high moral standard. In Denmark we prefer to do without - everyone contributes something (transport, printing, megaphone - whatever), no money involved. Collecting money, then giving in to pressure countrary to the purpose borders on scamming, and I understand those people who want their money back.

- When you put yourself in the position of being resonsible for a march like this, it is vital to face the challenges from the MAC and others undermining the purpose. That is what the word 'responsible' means - to make adequate resonses to difficult situations.

- The BNP, who I didn't hear much about before, has been mentioned extensively in the debate. Now people will be looking towards them to find people with spine.

- This march or the people behind won't bring us back Piglet :(

Good luck! Or perhaps: "Better luck next time"

-Henrik

5:32 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You’ve all heard the story before.

There was a white bull, a red bull and a black bull – oh and a (hungry) Nick Griffin of THE BNP too.

As they set off on a long and arduous journey together, full of danger due to many obstacles and wild animals along the way, Nick Griffin of THE BNP pulled aside the red and black bulls and explained that the white bull, due to the way it stood out so blatantly, should be sacrificed for the long term safety of the group. They both agreed, and Nick Griffin of THE BNP proceeded to eat the white bull.

Not too long after, Nick Griffin of THE BNP pulled aside the black bull and convinced it that the bright red bull had now become the threat to their safety. And so the red bull was duly eaten.

After a little while, Nick Griffin of THE BNP turned to the black bull and said, “My friend, it’s now time for me to eat you.”

The black bull resignedly replied to Nick Griffin of THE BNP, “No doubt, for indeed I died the day the white bull died.”

Carry on Marching with Nick Griffin and the BNP people becuase today you have died.

5:35 am  
Blogger Henrik said...

Selected litterature, for those interested in knowing things for themselves:

Islam and Terrorism by Mark A. Gabriel. A personal account from a former professor in islamic history, islamic university of Cairo.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer. A fast guide to Islam, Mohammad and the crusades.

The Myth of Islamic Tolerance by Robert Spencer. Busting the myth of islam as being inherently tolerant.

Militant Islam Reaches America by Daniel Pipes. Political analysis of the islamist strategies.

Life of Mohammad by Ibn Ishaq. The original islamic source for the life and deeds of Mohammad. Detailed, quite violent.

Any of these books can be purchased on Amazon.com and other good online stores.

Some of the above titles may be biased. Great - so am I. For freedom, against theocratic rule. We need the information therein to be able to related to the puzzling information handed to us by media and various leaders.
They are well documented with plenty of references to original sources, and very much worth your time.

Enjoy!

-Henrik

5:47 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you know what urls / links are for? You soppy cunt.

7:04 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can take that free speech of yours and shove it up your . Whats the bloody point of this stupid march anyway? you guys are just gonna get the muslims even angrier and they'll start bombing yous. Dont come runing to me when ure family dies in a bomb attack peter. Dont say i didnt warn you.

7:27 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 7:27 AM,

I'm in touch with the police concerning that post.

7:34 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hooray! Let's show them some intelligent free speech today.

8:16 am  
Anonymous Mike said...

Why has Peter singularly failed to engage with the core supporters of this event who were angered at his decicision to place a ban on cartoons of Mohammed at five minutes to midnight? Why has he not laid out his thought process on why a ban should be imposed and why this doesn't fundamentally contradict the principle of the event?

As countless people have said, it's unlikely that many people, if any, were going to bring pictures of Mohammed anyway, but the fact they have now been banned from doing so obviously drives a coach and horses through the principle of free expression. Peter knows that attendance may now be as much as 50% down because of his decision, yet there has been no proper explanation or clarification to anyone about this. Why? Why not even answer the most frequent request from people who say you should at least say you prefer the cartoons not to be shown, but as this is a rally for free expression people can do what they want to do? It's absolutely extraordinary that you refuse to answer.

Even at this late hour you have the ability to at least partly salvage this desperate situation and bring some people back on board by posting a message on this site that announces although you have a preference, no orders have been given. The ball is in your court.

8:35 am  
Blogger James said...

Voltaire et al...

I've just heard that the police have classified this as a far right march and are tooling themselves up for such. Any solicitors offering pro bono work on the off-chance of the police getting out of hand?

9:12 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

James, the police have NOT classified the event as a far right march. You are misinformed.

Police know full well who is organising the march, though they have prepared contingencies in case of fringe attempts to hijack the event.

But honestly now, think about it: can you see BNP bruisers down their local pub this evening, telling their mates they went to see Peter Tatchell speak in Trafalgar Square?

;-)

9:46 am  
Blogger anton said...

Where can I buy a Danish flag (and a Union Jack)?

9:50 am  
Blogger Henrik said...

Hi

A few news items to illustrate what's going on in Denmark. The linked stories are all in Danish, sorry about that. The Beeb probably would't run them anyway:

Imam Akkari jokes to suicide bomb moderate muslim Naser Khader in
case he joins the government:
http://www.berlingske.dk/indland/artikel:aid=714112

Local muslims don't mind the Akkari threats of suicide bombings. They say it's OK, because it was just in jest:
http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=445256

Moderate muslim Naser Khader gets some support after the death threats from Akkari:
http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=445274

Imam Abu Laban was filmed while talking about a matyr action some associates of him are planning:
http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aid=3639100

Death threats against our PM. While many in Denmark receive death threats from muslims as a matter of routine, this one is particular bad as it targets the stewards of our democracy: http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aid=3639054

Anything effective to defend our freedoms is bound to offend the muslims. The march organisers chose that muslim participation is cardinally important to them, and thus nothing muslim-offensive must be on the march. Strange choice.

I notice that the march anyway carries a right-wing extremist label from the police. Most things even remotely controversial seem to earn that label in no time.

Anonymous commented on my book recommendations. They're not meant to be academic dissertations. They're biased - I was wording that too cautiusly - was too early in the morning. I'm certainly aware of who wrote and published them. It's people in the heat of the debate, with opinions about things.

But if you refuse to read anything except what's been approved by the academia, you're going to miss the boat. We need to know what's going on. If you don't like my book selection, feel free to add to the list and suggest some others.

Anonymous chose not to comment on the book most clearly portraying Mohammad as a criminal, namely the biography by Ibn Ishaq. This is the original islamic source, commissioned by the Caliph in ca. 750. People who take Mohammed as an example for their lives should be approached with caution.

Will be interesting what happens today. Good luck!

9:51 am  
Blogger Dan said...

Mike:

Read Peter's statement - it's an appeal not an order. Then read Nick Pullar's (chief steward) statement on the "Muslims welcome" thread - he states quite categorically which banners, t-shirts and placards are acceptable and which aren't - noone's going to get kicked out for showing the cartoons.

We've just been asked to play nicely due to the way the toons are associated (rightly or wrongly) in the eyes of many Muslims with the BNP.

To those calling "Dhimmi" - I suggest you go back to reading Bat Ye'or. Quite how a request not to bring cartoons which are currently being used by a racist party to attack immigrants is dhimmitude I do not know.

Besides, noone is going to be stopped from doing so, and Peter has not called for people not to bring anything critical of Islam.

I've stated it before and I'll state it again - the free-thinking Muslims who've been in touch:

1) Do not want the toons banned;
2) Don't care whether they were published;
3) Whether they believe images of Muhammad ought to be forbidden or not, they do not believe this rule applies to non-Muslims.

If the BNP weren't parading these cartoons around as part of an anti-immigrant campaign, they would have no issue with being in a rally full of them.

Unless for some bizarre reason you believe that the only valid criticism of Islam is a set of twelve Danish cartoons of Muhammad, asking people not to bring the toons isn't dhimmitude. It's an appreciation of how it must feel to be on the wrong end of the BNP's hate. I don't think many of the "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells"'s on this thread seem to appreciate that.

10:13 am  
Blogger TheFriendlyInfidel said...

Top tip, if you want to wind up those over at the MAC, they seem to think that a post with this image is a mortal sin:

*-O))8-{>

I don't think that I'm being "racist" putting together these charactors together in this order, I believe that I am exposing wrong headed thinking.

10:30 am  
Blogger Steven said...

Freedom of Expression BUT BE CAREFUL NOT TO INSULT ANYONE.

Ironic really, one of your quotes is:
"Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth
having." -- Lord Justice Sedley

I am sorry, I cant support the rally now.

10:33 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To those people who think the best way to support free speech is to force people to look at pictures they've already told you they don't want to see

AND to those who see this merely as a chance to attack islam (when there are so many other threats to free speech, especially from the UK government)

all I can say is

good riddance!

10:41 am  
Blogger Steven said...

This is really dissapointing. This is a sham and not a march for freedom of expression:

"It had become clear that Muslims who agree with this campaign would have felt unable to attend the rally. That's why I have asked people not to display the cartoons and it is the only reason why."

I say that Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having.

11:02 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ali,

Islam is flawed and you are only lying you to yourself if you cannot admit.

You said:

Islam is a contract!

With whom did Abdul Rahman sign the contract?

Who signed the contract for, Ali, you and which other party?

It is signed with Allah's gangster and heavy men.

Abdal Rahman death will be murder no matter how you view it.

Also you are the murderer as you sanction this death in the name of Allah!

WAKE UP!

11:05 am  
Blogger Steven said...

Annon. They may not want to see these images, however the cartoons were not racist and to me, the cartoons are a symbole of the need for a march for freedom of expression. The cartoonists are currently living in fear for their lives due to death threats and rewards on their heads. That is not freedom of expression, and as such there is a need to show the world that we can show these images. I would love to see a Muslim holding up the cartoons saying that they support freedom of expression even if that means that they may be offended.

The cartoons were not racist. They were a political statement on self-censorship that has taken over western society from a two pronged attack: 1) Political correctness and 2) Fear of reprisals.

It is important to support the right to free speech, and that includes the ability to mock religion, religious figures and critisize religious beliefs. That includes the right to critisize different cultures without fear of being stabbed in the street like Theo Van Gogh was.

This campaign killed itself. How can you have a campaign for freedom of expression and then say dont bring the cartoons that caused the need for such a march in the hopes of not offending Muslims.

Moderate Muslims should attend with or without the cartoons. We should not have to give up our rights to increace the support for the rally, and that is what you have done.

11:10 am  
Blogger Steven said...

"symbole" is "symbol". My point is not less valid even if I cant be bothered to preview and check for typos.

11:12 am  
Anonymous News Update said...

News just in about the Jerry Springer opera. Apparently the makers of the production have been made aware that many Christians feel unable to attend their show whilst a the character Jesus Christ is in it. Therefore, to ensure freedom of expression contines, the makers have decided to remove all references to Jesus from the production.

11:16 am  
Anonymous FREEDOM said...

"The March for Culturally Sensitive Censorship"

Brilliant!!! A great big Islamic Love-In.

I will bring these cartoons and hope they fucking arrest me.. I will be a "martyr" for free speech!!

BRING THE CARTOONS!!!!! FUCK THE POLICE!! FUCK SENSITIVITY!!! I AM GOING TO OFFEND ANYBODY I WISH!!!

11:19 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what freedom of expression....where have the posts gone from 5;47 to 7:04am.........

11:30 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It's an appreciation of how it must feel to be on the wrong end of the BNP's hate."

No it's to avoid outrage from Muslim extremists who say you cannot draw Mohammed.

How must it feel to be on the wrong end of their hate in a suicide bombing

11:34 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post has been removed by the blog administrator.......WOW what principles of free speech and expression

11:43 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How must it feel to be on the wrong end of their hate in a suicide bombing"

just the same as being on the end of a cluster bomb ay a wedding party

11:45 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Genocide Convention makes it a crime against "humanity" to create conditions leading to the destruction of an identifiable human group

11:48 am  
Anonymous N said...

You mean like those Muslims in London calling for genocide? Liberals must stand up against this sort of prejudice.

11:50 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You’ve all heard the story before.

There was a white bull, a red bull and a black bull – oh and a (hungry) Nick Griffin of THE BNP too.

As they set off on a long and arduous journey together, full of danger due to many obstacles and wild animals along the way, Nick Griffin of THE BNP pulled aside the red and black bulls and explained that the white bull, due to the way it stood out so blatantly, should be sacrificed for the long term safety of the group. They both agreed, and Nick Griffin of THE BNP proceeded to eat the white bull.

Not too long after, Nick Griffin of THE BNP pulled aside the black bull and convinced it that the bright red bull had now become the threat to their safety. And so the red bull was duly eaten.

After a little while, Nick Griffin of THE BNP turned to the black bull and said, “My friend, it’s now time for me to eat you.”

The black bull resignedly replied to Nick Griffin of THE BNP, “No doubt, for indeed I died the day the white bull died.”

Carry on Marching with Nick Griffin and the BNP people becuase today you have died."

sad but true...we've become the good germans

11:52 am  
Anonymous Madmohammed said...

I have a great counter slogan to those muslim protesters that wrote: behead those , who insult Islam: "Try to behead that war-head of an aproaching nuke towards Mecca morons" LOL

or " Try to stone away an ICBM that aproaches MEcca, stupid pilgrim-fools"

11:53 am  
Anonymous I dont like Islam said...

Bring on the CARTOONS - I DARE ANY STEWARD TO BAN THEM in a FREE_SPEECH RALLY- tha would make the whole event a mockary

11:56 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i pray Nick Griffins daughters become muslims and marry the blackest african muslims and have loads of beautiful mixraced kids or one becomes a lesbian and has a black life partner. i really do

12:04 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There is no way in the present climate that they could be construed as anything other than a potential threat," - Peter Risdon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4844634.stm

12:08 pm  
Anonymous I like the BNP said...

Well the BNP is definetly jumping on the bandwagon:

Support Freedom of Expression

23rd March 2006

News article filed by BNP news team










Freedom of expression has been in the news in recent weeks and attempts by both the State and extremist Islamicists to stifle freedom of expression have come under the spotlight in the wake of the Nick Griffin and Mark Collett trial in January and the recent furore over the publication of satirical cartoons featuring Mohammed.

On Saturday in central London a wide range of political, religious and lobby groups will be taking part in a protest rally to affirm the importance of free expression in frank and honest debate, including the freedom to criticise and mock religions and faiths. The BNP, the only political party which champions free speech backs the protest and we have also been made aware that Civil Liberty supporters will be present to demonstrate against the encroaching intolerance of Marxism and militant Islamicists.

12:11 pm  
Anonymous Will B (i would sign in but i can't) :-/ said...

For all those who are concerned about the far right taking over; GO THEN. If you flood the crowd with lefties, peopleof the center right and of the center then no one can claim it was a far right march or an anti-muslim one.

12:13 pm  
Anonymous Will B said...

Well i can't attend today so good luck to all going! hope all goes well.

12:15 pm  
Blogger SaulOhio said...

Good luck. Because of the time difference, you are probably already at your march, so I may be a bit late in saying this, but I wish I could be with you. My thoughts are.

12:23 pm  
Anonymous Alan said...

I would have gone, but I really don't see any organisation on the motives in this freedom of speech protest.

You say you are against self-censorship, and yet you censor yourselves.

You say you are pro freedom of speech, and yet you say you are against racist remarks.

So really, you are somewhere in the middle, not defending anyone.

I supported the orriginal message of this protest, but it has been so diluted and watered down that its protesting against itself.

I say this needs broad descussion between eveyrone who wants to protest for the general idea of freedom of speech, in proper web forums, so that we can come to logical conclusions and really protest for the right thing.

12:26 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

"Interestingly, while I have been the focus of a lot of anger from some Muslims over my stance on these cartoons, my first death threat came as a response to the post below, obviously from a non-Muslim."

Correction; from somebody pretending not to be a muslim.

Perhaps the 7/7 bombers were jews in disguise? Its all possible in the wonderful world of dhimmitude, but there is a big difference in the real world from an anonymous e-mail and girls sold in kebabs, beheaded schoolgirls, suicide bombings and kamikaze planes.



Anyway, id still be there if i was down south.. with a 'splodin mo t-shirt and a placard saying "one head to many?"

Of course, with this extra silliness its an even more apt placard!

"cannons to the left of them, and cannons to the... um, left again!"

12:41 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cartoons - Freedom of speech or Muslim bashing

Just a few facts that dont get reported about the danish paper which printed the cartoons:

1.Before this incident they have refused to print a cartoon lampooning Christianity - the same editor said I cannot print it as it would be offensive to my readers. (reported in guardian). Then he goes out of his way and pays cartoonists to specifically offend Muslims!

2. An Iranian newspaper ran a counter competition asking for cartoon on israel and the holocaust - to test freedom of speech in the west they asked the same danish paper to also print them. An australian cartoonist sent a cartoon showing a holocaust survivor leaving for israel only to find parallels between the holocaust and what he saw in Israel. The cartoonist said he had trouble getting it published in australia. The danish editor agreed to print it - for this he was sacked (officially sent on indefinate leave).

Is this affair really about freedom of speech or just Muslim bashing? Make up your own mind.


Synapse

12:42 pm  
Blogger The Fish said...

Everything is subjective

12:44 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

"But honestly now, think about it: can you see BNP bruisers down their local pub this evening, telling their mates they went to see Peter Tatchell speak in Trafalgar Square?

;-) "

Come to think of it, ive never met the queen!

I actually respect that guy, though i disagree with him on most things. He tried to do a citizens arrest of robert (hawk spit) mugabee, and got beaten up for it.

12:48 pm  
Anonymous Rastaman said...

ML1 said:

"Quite how a request not to bring cartoons which are currently being used by a racist party to attack immigrants is dhimmitude I do not know."

Thereby proving both his/her Islamic nature and stupidity.

Now for all of you BNP-haters out there: Remember that the Enemy of Your Enemy Is Your Friend, and this was never more true than now. Don't stay divided over -relatively- minor differencers. Islamic fundamentalism is a global enemy and it is out to conquer YOU. If the BNP wants to make some political hay by speaking out in support of the march, you can't stop them from doing it anyway and you do need all the help you can get.

Never bite the hand that feeds you.

1:00 pm  
Anonymous Rastaman said...

--- differences..... not differencers....

1:04 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It may well be too late to do this, but has anyone thought of making banners saying "Free Abdul Rahman". Rahman is the Afghan man currently facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity. Sure that would be a worthy cause?

1:57 pm  
Anonymous pap said...

do u honestly think it is freedom of expression to mock somebody's beliefs? if you do you'd be gravely mistaken. it would cause an uproar if i were to bad mouth other religions, openly, i'd probably even get arrested. you should keep hurtful comments to yourselves because thats not free speech. besides itagainst islam to draw pictures of prophet Muhammed (PBUH). there are very few people in the world who practice their religion properly, i am happy to say that islam has the highest percentage of people who practice their religions properly. it is not our fault that you have forgotten your ways, so dont condem ours.We only protested last month because we have a strong belief in our religion.

4:09 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"do u honestly think it is freedom of expression to mock somebody's beliefs?"

Yes it is.


next question?

4:22 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alan, you really hit the nail on the head with your excellent posting.

"I would have gone, but I really don't see any organisation on the motives in this freedom of speech protest.

You say you are against self-censorship, and yet you censor yourselves.

You say you are pro freedom of speech, and yet you say you are against racist remarks.

So really, you are somewhere in the middle, not defending anyone.

I supported the orriginal message of this protest, but it has been so diluted and watered down that its protesting against itself.

I say this needs broad descussion between eveyrone who wants to protest for the general idea of freedom of speech, in proper web forums, so that we can come to logical conclusions and really protest for the right thing.
"

This Freedom thing is just a smoke-screen for proping up blind racism. There is no Freedom of speech , it never has existed, and it never will. And as Alan says, your own blog board is testimony to this (censoring posts).

Please do not be fools. Use your mind, take a step back, and just think for a few minutes. What is the real drive behind this?

Ali the Muslim

4:24 pm  
Blogger fido said...

Methinks I can smell dhimmitude coming out here.

4:30 pm  
Anonymous Hitler said...

To deport muslim parasites like YOU !!!

4:32 pm  
Anonymous Spiegel.de said...

germanys most popular weekly polit-magazine has an article about the rally :

ANGLIKANER UND DER ISLAM

Hohepriester des Appeasements

Von Sebastian Borger, London

Auf Londons Trafalgar Square wird heute für die Meinungsfreiheit demonstriert. Eine Darstellung des Propheten Mohammed gehört aber nicht dazu, findet die Staatskirche. Im Umgang mit Fundamentalisten zeigt sie sich bemerkenswert ängstlich.



ANZEIGE





London - Die Kundgebung auf dem Trafalgar Square, Londons guter Stube, dient einem unverfänglichen Zweck. Am Nachmittag wollen einige hundert Briten für eine Gesellschaft eintreten, so sagt es Organisationschef Peter Reester, "in der wir miteinander streiten, uns gegenseitig nerven, sogar beleidigen, ohne uns Gewalt anzutun".

Klingt nach guter britischer Toleranz - bis die Rede auf die dänischen Mohammed-Karikaturen kommt, die vor knapp zwei Monaten die Welt in Atem hielten. Reester hält die Karikaturen "nicht für beleidigend", rät seinen Demo-Teilnehmern aber davon ab, sie öffentlich zu zeigen. Das sei "im derzeitigen öffentlichen Klima" nicht ratsam. Weil Reester seine Demonstration nicht von der neo-faschistischen British National Party vereinnahmt sehen will, arbeitet er eng mit der Polizei zusammen. Die ist denn auch "auf alles gut vorbereitet", wie Superintendent Dave George sagt.

FORUM
Was kann den Kampf der Kulturen verhindern? II

Diskutieren Sie mit anderen SPIEGEL- ONLINE- Lesern!

1933 Beiträge,
Neuester: Heute, 17.07 Uhr
von Eliza

Was darunter wohl zu verstehen ist? Über die Meinungsfreiheit und ihre Ausübung wird auf der Insel zwar viel gestritten. Vor kurzem etwa sorgte die gerade erst eingeführte Bannmeile rund ums Parlament für Aufregung. Unter Berufung auf die Sperrzone war die Polizei gegen eine junge Kriegsgegnerin strafrechtlich vorgegangen worden, die am zentralen Kriegerdenkmal in der Nähe des Unterhauses die Namen der mittlerweile 100 im Irak getöteten britischen Soldaten verlesen hatte.

Kritiklos in Khartoum

Was die Mohammed-Karikaturen angeht, gab es aber eine einheitliche, fast beängstigende Front aus Politik und Presse, die sich von Anfang an in Appeasement übten. Das Wort hat einen schlimmen Klang, seit die konservative Regierung damit in den dreißiger Jahren ihre Untätigkeit gegenüber der immer größer werdenden Nazi-Bedrohung rechtfertigte.

Dieser Tage hat auch die anglikanische Staatskirche ihre Teilhabe am Appeasement-Konsens demonstriert. Zunächst stattete der Erzbischof von Canterbury, der in Personalunion auch Chef der weltweiten Anglikanischen Gemeinschaft ist, dem Sudan einen Besuch ab. Das schwarzafrikanische Land erlebte jahrelang einen Bürgerkrieg zwischen dem muslimischen Norden und dem christlichen Süden. In der Hungerprovinz Darfur im Westen des riesigen Landes verüben die arabischen Dschandschawid-Milizen, offenbar geduldet von der muslimischen Zentralregierung in Khartum, Greueltaten an der einheimischen Bevölkerung; langjährige Beobachter wie der frühere Bundesinnenminister Gerhart Rudolf Baum sprechen schon längst von einem Völkermord.

Der frühere Erzbischof George Carey hatte sich 1994 einem Besuchsprogramm der Regierung verweigert und war über Uganda in den christlichen Süden des Landes gereist. Das hatte damals die Ausweisung des britischen Botschafters zur Folge. Der jetzige Erzbischof Rowan Williams ließ sich brav von der Regierung bewirten, der Völkermordsprovinz Darfur stattete er keinen Besuch ab. Im christlichen Süden des Landes erwies er sich offenbar als wohlinformiert über die jahrelange Zwangsislamisierung, die seit dem Sieg der christlichen Sudanesischen Volksbefreiungsarmee langsam rückgängig gemacht wird. In einem langen BBC-Interview nach seiner Heimkehr aber beschränkte sich Williams auf gedrechselte Floskeln: Die Islamisierungspolitik sei "nicht im Interesse vieler Einwohner des Sudans gewesen".

"Entsetzt" über harmlose Karikatur

Wer glaubte, der gelehrte Theologe sei zu eindeutigeren Aussagen nicht fähig, wurde im gleichen Interview eines Besseren belehrt. Für "eine aussergewöhnliche rechtliche Anomalie" hält der Erzbischof das US-Internierungslager Guantanámo Bay, wo seit Jahren Hunderte von Muslimen ohne rechtliches Gehör festgehalten werden. Das Vorgehen der Amerikaner gebe "Tyrannen weltweit, jetzt und in Zukunft" das falsche Signal. Dem tyrannischen Regime von Khartoum blieb Williams ein eindeutiges Signal schuldig.

Dafür sandte Williams' walisischer Kollege diese Woche eine Vielzahl von Signalen, eines devoter als das andere, an die Muslime von Wales. Anlass war "Y Llan", das Kirchenblättchen auf Walisisch mit einer Auflage von 400 Exemplaren. Dessen Chefredakteur hatte in der jüngsten Nummer wortreich für die Toleranz zwischen den auf Abraham zurückgehenden Religionen Judentum, Christentum und Islam plädiert. Illustriert war der Artikel mit einem eher harmlosen Exemplar der Mohammed-Karikaturen. Die Zeichnung zeigt den Propheten auf einer Himmelswolke neben Gott und Buddha, die zu ihm sagen: "Beschwer' Dich nicht - wir alle sind schon karikiert worden".

Als Erzbischof Barry Morgan die Karikatur sah, "war ich entsetzt", berichtete der Kirchenmann der BBC. "Ich habe persönlich einige Exemplare aus unseren Kirchen entfernt." Alle Abonnenten des obskuren Magazins erhielten einen Brief mit der Bitte um Rücksendung. Dem "Y Llan"-Chefredakteur warf Morgan öffentlich "einen schweren Fehler" vor, woraufhin der Geistliche pflichtgemäss seinen Rücktritt einreichte.

Damit nicht genug. Morgan beauftragte einen Bischof mit der genauen Untersuchung des Falles. Ohne das Ergebnis abzuwarten, wandte er sich unverzüglich telefonisch an den walisischen Muslimenrat, vereinbarte einen Termin und entschuldigte sich persönlich bei dessen Generalsekretär Saleem Kidwai. Der nahm die Entschuldigung grossmütig an: "Wir schätzen die Sorge des Erzbischofs um unsere Gefühle." Die Demonstration auf dem Trafalgar Square hat schon vorab die Gefühle eines wenig bekannten Muslimischen Aktionskomitees verletzt. Es ruft zu einer Gegendemonstration auf - zum Glück im 200 Kilometer entfernten Birmingham.

4:35 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny, all these lectures by Muslims about how Freedom of speech is 'blind racism'. Hunny how you don't call Islamic preaching hatred towards Christians, Jews, Hindus, gays 'blind hatred'. You think there is one rule for Muslims and another for eveyonelse. No wonder Islamofearbia is on the rise. We don't want to be slaves to Islam!

4:41 pm  
Anonymous JEWS + Christians UNITE said...

Islam + Quran ( inciting hatret, gender-apartheit and killing of atheists, jews and christians)

should be banned under the human-rights-act!!!

Hitlers Mein Kampf is less harmfull than the horrible rantings by Mohammed ( may he burn in hell) - the massmurdering pedophile prophet!!!

4:46 pm  
Anonymous Alan said...

Ali,
There is not doubt that the publishing of these cartoons was immoral, and whats more you have every right to protest against the newspapers in question, even calling for a boycott of their products.

However, I do believe that the newspaper should have the right to publish them, just as I believe that everyone should legally have the right to insult my thoughts, beliefs and ideas.

But there still needs to be a line drawn on the limits of freedom of speech, and I am still unsure of where to draw that line. After all, what is the difference between punching someone until they cry and insulting someone until they cry?

4:59 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

callin for a ban on cartoons on a freedom of speech march
you fecking DHIMMEY
afraid of a fatwa?
stand up for yourself

5:02 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

http://muslim-action-committee.blogspot.com/

MAC's success in pressuring the organisers of the March for Free Expression to tell people not to bring placards and t-shirts of the cartoons (see below) has resulted a poor turnout of no more than 300. For a nationwide demonstration which had been campaigning for over a month to raise supporters, this is truely pathetic. The reality is despite gaining support from a wide range of speakers and organisations, support for the demonstration had been growing amongst only one section of the community- those who hate Islam and say this demonstration as an opportunity to attack Islam and Muslims publically by parading the Danish Cartoons. When the organisers of the March for Free Expression finally caved in to mounting pressure from the GLA and the Police orchestrated by MAC through the IHRC and from sister Sayyida Rend Shakir al-Hadithi's threatning to pull out from speaking at the last minute after talking to leaders of MAC the organisers finally capitulated and said the cartoons would not be welcomed.

This is not right Peter. Who is telling the truth? I suppected that those over at M.A.C. done exactly what is described above. I think we all deserve an explinaton as to what made you U-turn.

And pretty damn fast. :-/

5:35 pm  
Blogger cookie monster said...

i applaud the fact that this march has gone ahead. this IS a wonderfully accepting and open minded country and those that protested a few wees ago against the publication of the cartoons satirising the prophet mohammed abused that fact.

theres also the fear of being called a racist or 'islamphobe' for speaing up. from what ive seen of the publicity of this event its not racist or whatever PC epithet you want to use. even IF it was then the same law that let those arsewipes that held banner advocating murder against londoners also allows for someone else to put over a differing view.

then theres the fact that a lot of the muslims who seem to be the most vocal also seem to thin that islam is exempt from criticism ro whatever whilst they can champion the murder of innocent people in london, or the death of gays or the destruction of Israel etc. to put it plainly, 'dont dish it out if you cant tae it'

as a parting aside, why were those people protesting against the cartoons of mohammed when they werent even published in this country? we have bent over bacwards to accomodate extremist muslims and their vile views, now its time for the average man or woman in the street to put their voice across.

well done fella on this march.

(unless your a bird, in which case, nice one love!)

5:39 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You've been done over by the BBC.

Here's their story about your march:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4844634.stm

Look. They mentioned this blog, but they didn't give a link to it.

The story mentioned the MAC's counter demonstration in birmingham, and they put a link up to their campaign for 'global civility' instead.

Oh dear. The BBC appears to be biased.


(I hope 'global civility' means not chopping people's heads off for converting to christianity by the way!)

6:09 pm  
Anonymous Michael Stephen Fuchs said...

First pictures?

http://www.michaelfuchs.org/razorsedge/?story=2006-03-25

Well, my office is right off Trafalgar Square. 8^)

Well done, Voltaire! Well done, everyone! Good fun!

Yours in liberty,
Michael Stephen Fuchs

6:20 pm  
Anonymous Michael Stephen Fuchs said...

Hmm, try that link to pictures again . . . 8^)

msf

6:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The explanation of the MAC sounds like a construction to me. It shows one thing clearly: They believe in a climate of fear.

But having seen Abu Laban on video and having read the Quran to some extent (and continuing) I think they overestimate themselves.

6:25 pm  
Blogger J said...

nice one michael for posting the pics, i blog on the infidel bloggers alliance and im gonna post some of the pics on there now, nice one for everyone who went and as you can see from the pics it looks as though some people did bring the mo pics, thus a freedom rally it was.

obviously with the msm working as hard as poss to supress news about the march affected turnout, not to mention the issue that people didnt go over the bringing the mo pics problem.

congrats again to all the people that went and sorry i couldn't go.

p.s, nice to see there was no NF or BNP turnout

6:39 pm  
Blogger Babyboots said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6:44 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

I did a post on al-beeb not posting your link here;

http://bnpandme.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-news.html

I think i wwas the first to notice, if i do say so myself ;)

6:45 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well done Michael - thanks for posting those photos - which is something the BBC still hasnt done.

Instead, they illustrate their news item with a photo of a pro-Islam rally (wtf??)

6:47 pm  
Blogger Jez said...

I commend your call for respect for freedom of expression. I fight for it every day. I just feel disapointed that the struggle for freedom of expression has been hijacked by racists and xenophobes in general. Perhaps this could have been a march for respect in general: respect for freedom of expression as well as respect for other people's beliefs and culture.

6:48 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a quick point about freedom of speech and the cartoons.

If I go down my average local boozer on a Friday night and start yelling at a bunch of the punters that all their mums are slags, I fully expect to get a smack in the face for my troubles.

I would not then get on my high horse and claim that my freedom of speech was being suppressed!

Nobody should be threatened or censored, and the Danish newspaper had every right to publish them in the first place, but now that we *know* that a lot of people are genuinely offended, continuing to wave those images in their faces is just going out to deliberately insult someone, just like yelling abuse around a crowded pub.

And we shouldn't forget that for every 50 muslims who are running around blowing things up, there are 500,000 who aren't, and who really just want to get on with their lives. And we BADLY want those people to choose to side with us. And telling them all to fuck off is not smart.

7:00 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Thanks Michael Stephen Fuchs for posting the photos, looks to me like there was about 500 maybe just less than that, in the square. congrats on the turnout everyone. we need to build upon it.

7:08 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can see a few pics of today's rally here: http://www.thatshot.org/march_for_free_expression_london.html

7:14 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jez - "I just feel disapointed that the struggle for freedom of expression has been hijacked by racists and xenophobes in general. Perhaps this could have been a march for respect in general: respect for freedom of expression as well as respect for other people's beliefs and culture."

As far as I am concerned, it was. That was my main reason for going today: so that those of us who really do believe in freedom of expression, and in freedom of all kinds, would outnumber and outrepresent the BNP and the racists, who don't believe in freedom for anyone at all and who want just as much as Islamic extremists to rule over us all and to totally control us and our lives through an all-powerful state - a police state in the case of the facists, a religious state in the case of the islamists.

And I think it worked, too, because there were no big displays of hatred or antagonism and everybody was just free to express themselves. It didn't seem to me like anyone was calling for or trying to support or propagate racism or xenophobia, and I think it worked out better than you feared, and I think you maybe have allowed what is really little more than the rantings of a few anonymous internet flamers to worry you too much.

And if anyone tries to hijack the cause of freedom of speech and expression, there is a duty on us all to turn out and hijack the bugger right back!

Cheers! :)

7:15 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"and we BADLY want those people to choose to side with us. And telling them all to fuck off is not smart."

i tend to agree with you anon.

Wearing a Danish flag would have made pretty much the same point, without intentionally going out and insulting folks.

from looking at the photos posted above , it does indeed look like cooler heads prevailed, thankfully.

7:16 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.thatshot.org/
march_for_free_expression_
london.html

You'll have to copy/ paste all three parts of the link into your browser because this comment system cannot cope with the length of the link.

7:16 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Mr 'Hitler'

The real parasites are the countries that go and invade others to steel their resources. This country is a parasite.

This is because it believes and practices capitalism, which means greed. After it left the True god that created all, it decided to worship the false god of greed.

Think about it.

Ali the Muslim

7:21 pm  
Blogger J said...

thanks anon for the thatshot pics, im adding them to the alliance now

7:25 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

anonymous makes a good point above. But it is the over-the-top violent reaction to the cartoons that is so disturbing.

it is the fact that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is under 24x7 protection tht is so disturbing.

everywhere you look,if there is any perceived insult to Islam it is met with a violent, reaction, usually with death threats - or in the case of Theo Van Gogh , an actual murder.

if the Muslims weren't so violent in their reaction, i am sure most people with be broadly sympathetic with them, and would indeed be more civil and more understanding of their veneration of their "prophet". that's just called being polite.

the Muslims have scored an own goal here - they have lost the argument. And they did it themselves. End of story.

7:29 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The real parasites are the countries that go and invade others to steel their resources. This country is a parasite."

wow. thanks for informing me. Billionaire Saudi princes much be a figment of my imagination so - we must be stealing their oil rather than paying for it.

7:32 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And we shouldn't forget that for every 50 muslims who are running around blowing things up, there are 500,000 who aren't, and who really just want to get on with their lives. "

This HAS to be the most commonly used statement with nothing to back it up. On the contrary, it takes me a mere minute on yahoo news to find evidence that the opposite is, in fact true.

"But the bigger problem confronting the president is that an overwhelming number of ordinary Afghans appear to believe Mr Rahman has erred and deserves to be executed."

Yeah, those 500,000 sure are tough to find. Care to explain how you came up with that figure, or even a figure stating that 'most' muslims are 'moderate'?

7:47 pm  
Blogger waltwide said...

So, Anonymous is a muslim doctor who is inundated by patients of any
faith, be they Hindu,Moslem,Christian,Buddhist,Jew,orwhatnot...
well, he still got time for this blog: out of 98 messages, 44 are written by him....
this guy is the biggest fake on this site!, you better wipe it, just to deny him any sort of satisfaction.... have a nice saturday!
p.s. ca.600 people is fairly poor, ain´t it ?

7:49 pm  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

Clickable link to the pictures

7:53 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Toonophobia

May I congratulate the man with that placard for this new word.

USE IT!

The toonophobes will hate you for it you'll love it.

7:53 pm  
Anonymous Dr Mengele said...

No Ali, you people are the parasites: Comming into a once healthy Europoe to get all the benefits, wealth and securities, where you can breed like rats while preeching hatred against your host nation and telling us what we are aloud to say and what not!!! You come to us and destroy our healty communities from within ... you behave likePARASITES!!!!
people like you and other muslims should pack their bags and LEAVE Europe immediatly , or els WE WILL DO FINALLY SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

THATS A PROMISE!!!!

7:54 pm  
Blogger Steven said...

Great Britain is no longer great. We are in a Dhimmi nation, the London march for freedom of expresssion censored itself, pathetic.

8:02 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I congratulate Peter and the rest of you for having such a fun and successful day, but you really need to take a long, hard look at yourselves before going forwards.

So many of you seem to believe that you are being sensible in opposing the presence of the BNP and other people with whom you disagree. All this means is that you simply have no idea what Free Expression is all about. This movement should be open to all, regardless of political affiliation. Commies, Zionists, Religious Fundamentalists, Atheists, Racists, Flat Earthers, UFO abductees, Students, Pensioners, Saints, Whores and even normal people. The only prerequisite is that they must agree never to attempt to stifle the free expression of the other members as long as it is not explicitly forbidden by a law laid down in a democratic parliament.

Let me make it pithy. Political opinion is IRRELEVANT, freedom to express the opinion is paramount.

Get it?

All the best.

8:03 pm  
Blogger Speak Freely said...

HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!

ENGLAND IS NOT FULLY DHIMMIFIED!!!!!!!!!

I am very happy to make this observation.

To those of you ask "Is display of the cartoons the only way you support free speech?"

NO.

Like it or not, you must regard the fact that no law enforcement authorities interfered with the display of the cartoons is a good indicator that speech is still free.

Free Abdul Rahman.

SAVENAZANIN.COM
She killed an attempted rapist in self defense. Nazanin now faces a death penalty imposed by an Islamic Shariah court in Iran.

8:08 pm  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

The demo could have gone a lot worse than it went. It has perhaps survived the absurdity of being told not to display the motoons because there were a few of them in evidence.

It was strange when Peter(?) introduced Maryam(?) saying her colleague had been cornered by seven coppers and told that his cartoon banner had offended somebody. We were getting worked up by that. Marayam asked us to pass the cartoon poster around, but as soon as it was out into the audience Peter said "OK that's enough we'll do that later", which sounded perfectly bazarre to me. (I was the voice at the back of the audience saying, "pass the banner round!!".)

But the cartoon was passed around and that was good.

After that, the highlight of the day was Ali from Iraq.

The whole thing was rather subdued, though and strange to me. It's like nobody knew what to do.

If everybody can get behind repealing the blasphemy law let's do that. I don't think there is enough commonality on free speech.

8:12 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

"p.s. ca.600 people is fairly poor, ain´t it ? "

for something that was just promoted on blogs, thats not bad at all. it could have been one man and his dog turning up.

"No Ali, you people are the parasites"

that sort of talk just pushes young Muslim males into the arms of the jihadists.

but i understand your anger - our pandering elite dont help matters, especially when chief dhimmi idiot Prince Charles is doing a tour of Islamofascist Saudi Arabia right now - where all religion , except Islam, is banned outright.

this is why absolute freedom of speech is so important. Turn that off - and you'll end up with lots more with "dr mengele's" mentality.

8:13 pm  
Anonymous Rastaman said...

The police estimated the crowd at a maximum of 190 people and when I look at the pictures of the largest groupings and do careful head counts, I come up with a lot less, so I assume the 190 includes those who showed up for a short while and then left. There's a lot of police but sorry, they don't count. Peter Risdon told the press that there were 600 people. Bullshitter to the bitter end, eh Peter?

8:20 pm  
Blogger J said...

"So many of you seem to believe that you are being sensible in opposing the presence of the BNP and other people with whom you disagree. All this means is that you simply have no idea what Free Expression is all about. This movement should be open to all, regardless of political affiliation. Commies, Zionists, Religious Fundamentalists, Atheists, Racists, Flat Earthers, UFO abductees, Students, Pensioners, Saints, Whores and even normal people."

no one denied the bnp's right to turn up. i may think that the bnp are hypocrites but i will defend their right to rant about "zionist world domination" and all the rest of the rubbish they (mostly) rant on about, as long as they don't take it to the level of calling for the murder of "non-whites" (which i don't believe they have done, yet)

i also object to people who use the name "dr mengele" or "hitler", but, but this is free speech and these peoples descriptions of themselves make it easier for me to work out what sort of people they are.

8:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Why apart from said "pet muslim?"

That would be because the pet muslim appears to have been nothing more than an enemy within the camp:

from MAC's press release:

"When the organisers of the March for Free Expression finally caved in to mounting pressure from the GLA and the Police orchestrated by MAC through the IHRC and from sister Sayyida Rend Shakir al-Hadithi's threatning to pull out from speaking at the last minute after talking to leaders of MAC the organisers finally capitulated and said the cartoons would not be welcomed."

You want more of an explanation than that? Did the organisers honestly think that a paid up member of the mohammed club would actually value free expression more than her secret club handshake?

8:25 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

"So many of you seem to believe that you are being sensible in opposing the presence of the BNP and other people with whom you disagree. All this means is that you simply have no idea what Free Expression is all about."

when the BNP stop banging on and on about "white" this, and "white" that and "white" the other, then they might be able to join the rest of us. until then - they can go to hell.

we dont need a BNP - we need a UK version of late Pim Fortuyn's List party.

8:25 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Compared to the 5000 toonophobes that was not a bad turnout. Please think for a second: Toonophobes HAD to turn up at the time because their Mullah told them so, because they would have had to answer for not turning up.

8:29 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More pics:

http://nordish.net/blog/london_25march/

8:31 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

"Compared to the 5000 toonophobes that was not a bad turnout. Please think for a second: Toonophobes HAD to turn up at the time because their Mullah told them so, because they would have had to answer for not turning up. "

one toonophobe said at the time, and its on the BBC news site, that she loved Mohammed more than her family, her daughter, more than life itself.

thats not religion - thats cult behaviour.

and anyway - 5000 is but a tiny fraction of the 2 MILLION Muslims in Britain.

Here's what Shaira Kahn, a British Muslim had to say about the nutter Jihadists

Go live in Saudi Arabia, mad mullahs!

8:39 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

u chicken shit
ive always spoiled my ballot on every vote except to bring the shit blair in the first time (in the top 10 of worst ever..)
but your yelloness has topped it my next and following votes will bee bnp

8:46 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have an almost serious question:

Do toonophobes get pimples when they see a picture of Mohammed?

Sub-question: Is that the real reason they are toonophobes?

8:47 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Peter, Peter, Peter... you utter f**king clown. To think I traipsed miles to stand around this afternoon in a crowd of full of polite, could-barely-be-arsed, middle-class idiots who represented absolutely nothing. Can you imagine what anyone who is opposed to free speech would have thought, looking at that rabble? Is that the best we/you could do? Is that all we could muster? Is that the highest level of feeling?

Peter, the responsibility for the whole thing being the damp squib it most certainly was rests at your door. Here's a tip for you for next time - don't f**king bother. It was a waste of time. We - and most especially you - are an absolute joke. No wonder the BBC weren't interested. Why would they be?

Pathetic.

As you can tell, I'm well pissed off about this. You wasted our time Peter. You wasted our money. And you effectively killed off - with your ridiculous demands and your amateur organising skills - any kind of unified movement. For f**k's sake.

Anyone else fancy a go?

8:50 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.thatshot.org/
march_for_free_expression_
london.html

why the weird photoshop additions?

(trying to boost the numbers or something)

9:14 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

u cost me a days wages comming for this disgrace 200 max
weres the donations gone?
why did u cave i
free speech is to have the right to say some thing u dont want to here
PLEEASE EXPLAIN UR BEHAVIOR!
did u get death threats ?
how much were u paid?

9:17 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Dr Mengele !

No man, capitalist nations are the parasites. Their parasitic activities forces people to leave their homelands and immigrate. And guess what. When they immigrate to a country that was the cause for thier migration they obviously feel resentful about it and so try to abuse it. Islamically this is wrong, but human nature being what it is , things dont allways work out. And when they see these countries attack thier homelands even more , like in iraq, they feel even more resentful and angry. So its not that Islam is about hatred to humanity. Actaully it has little to do with religion. Any person whose homeland gets attacked by his resident nation will start hating that nation. Some people (many of you guys here) interpret that as being due to religion and start blaming religion. But this is because of your own hatred and biases unfortunately. Muslims dont hate countries that dont attack them. They only hate countries that have invaded them and killed and terrorised them. Its sad you guys cant see that. You just dont want to see things for how they are. instead you want to convolute the issue and start using religion as a scapegoat for your own short comings. In other words, it helps you go into DENIAL.

Sad but true, i believe.

Ali

9:23 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:24 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just seen the photos. The word, "pitiful" springs to mind - most of the people look mildly embarrassed. I can't help but think what might have been if not for Voltaire's capitulation at the eleventh hour. Still, I'm sure they must have made a bit of dosh from the donations, so it's not all doom and gloom.

9:26 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

the bbc has finally gotten around to linking to this site (right hand side)

and they've replaced the pro-islam rally photo with one from today.
finally.

about a good 4 or 5 hours after the damn thing happened. no wonder blogs are whipping the MSM's ass.

9:26 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ali: "Sad but true, i believe"

See, that's your problem right there. It's not true - any of the garbage you come out with. It's that you believe it's true. The sad bit is that you really don't understand the difference.

9:27 pm  
Blogger Henrik said...

Danish independent rally had some 40 participants: http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aid=3639476

AFAIK (didn't see the rally), only 'Freedom of expression' was on display, not cartoons.

Left-wingers (as could be expected) attacked the demonstration with .. water :) The police quickly made sure that no further trouble was possible.

BTW, I like the picture from the British rally with slogans and the Danish flag. A shame the cartoons could not be shown...

9:29 pm  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

Let's stop this lie about 190 people whether it came from the police or not. I counted 50 people up one side of the group. I was standing in the back mid way between left and right. I counted 50 people up the right side from me up to the front. I judged there were another 50 people next to those. Estimating from that I figured about 1000 people.

190 people is a fucking lie!!

It's either someone here spreading disinformation or it is the police spreading disinformation.

Anybody else who counted some heads pls speak up.

9:30 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A request: Can we please stop referring to Risdon as Voltaire.

There must be loads of other appropriate names we can think of. Let's see...

9:30 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Juan - I'm no whiz at maths. But judging from what you said - 50 + 50 + 50 = 150, not 1000. Oh, unless you're suggesting that those 50 were just the front line of some deep (and invisible) crowd.

Oh, come on. I was there. It was 190 at the very best. You only have to look at the photographs to see that. There were more people on my bus back home.

9:34 pm  
Blogger Charles Martel said...

ali -> how come the Kurds are pro-American so? something to do with a certain dictator being overthrown i suspect.

you sir , are a twat of the highest order.

of course , you forget that it was the Americans that aided the Mujaheeden during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

and just who the hell are we "attacking"? pakistan? saudi? qatar? bahrain?

last time i checked, we in the west liberated Kuwait from the clutches of Saddam. We then liberated Iraq and overthrew Saddam , giving Iraqis their first ever democratic government.

And all you can do is come on here a whine about the "parasitic" west.

for f**ks sake, how are we parasitic when we're paying for Saudi oil?

i'd agree with you if we had invaded Saudi and just extracted the oil - but thats not the real world. we havent done that. and you have billionaire Saudi princes as a result.

you should look long and hard at your own religious leaders before having a dig at us.

9:37 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think i've got to the bottom of the Peter, Sayyida Rend Shakir, MAC triange buisness, see their latest posts:
http://muslim-action-committee.blogspot.com/

9:40 pm  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

That was a reasonable article by the Beeb. Better than most of their coverage of international news. Thanks for giving us the link.

As per my earlier post, although Peter is quoted as saying 600 people were there, I would put the number nearer 1000. I made my count of 100 people counting just two people deep up the right side from the back to the front while Evan Harris was speaking. Based on that count, I estimated there were 1000 people there.

Oh dear me anonymous coward, re-read my post. As above, I counted 50+50 just up the right side -- one person deep = 50, two people deep = 100. And estimated 1000 from that.

There were easily 15 or more swathes of that width but there was open space around the speakers (yielding fewer people), and there were people behind the speakers (i.e. more people). As I said to begin with, it's an estimate. But I actually counted 50 people going from back to front up the right side, just counting those on the outside.

9:42 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Juan - Re-reading your earlier post (as you suggested) provides no further illumination to your maths. It's the same bad/puzzling equation it was the first time. As you'll see though, if you read *my* post again, I actually guessed at what you were doing.

Reading your new post, however, does make sense of your maths - which is what you should have said in the first place.

And what's all this 'coward' business just because someone chooses to remain anonymous? It's not as if I'm scared. Why would I be? I mean, it's not as if I'm worried about reprisals because I'm criticising your bloody maths.

It's because I don't want to sign up to Blogger, if you must know - I'm signed up to enough shit. My name is Robert. Robert Sankey. Okay?

9:50 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We will over come
Although I had little to do with the set up of this event I would firstly like to that the MET Police for they are brave on a daily basis. Not trying to go all Godly on you but the message for me is clear. As Martin Luther King once said 'He will lead us to the promised land'...we are standing on it. 'And it will be for ALL of Gods Children'. once again...look down, nature is a language...I'm sure you can read it....*god rant over*...*He beems* thank you Peter for putting this together and I would like to thank everyone who attended and the wise words of the speakers have struck a cord with me. I will not forget this day. joseph.[sic]

9:51 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well despite throwing a hissy fit and saying I wouldn't go - I did actually manage to attend out of curiousity if nothing else.
Highlight of the day for me was the short, sharp speech by LABI SIFFRE who was not only the best speaker but also made the most relevant points.
Most of the other speakers said worthy things though some clearly lacked appropriate presentation skills - most dissappointingly the guy from the National Secular Society. Peter Tatchell kept it short and to the point and was also good.
Sayyida Rend Shakir was a complete waste of space and droned on for what seemed like hours about everything and nothing. Fortunately the crowd had a genial nutter to entertain them during her sermon in the form of a black man in a superman sweatshirt carrying an effigy of Tony Blair with a swastika and bells hanging round its neck. The stewards tried to get him arrested but shouts of "Leave him alone" from the crowd ensured that he was able to make his statement - whatever it was! He had an impressive haircut with the word "FEAR", "666" and the British Flag impressed on his head!!! All good fun!
Attendance was relatively poor and this can obviously be blamed on the dreadful last minute U-turn by the organisers. The crowd seemed good humoured but there should have been 10 times as many. Better luck next time.

10:04 pm  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

Well, Robert Sankey, I don't see why you didn't understand but I do agree that I was more explicit the second time. So I'm glad we've put that behind us!

"anonymous coward" is the name Slashdot and blog systems based on their software give to commenters who don't register with it. (As a result, most people who stick around eventually register.)

I find it annoying trying to make any sense of the exchanges where half the people have the same name ("anonymous") so I was using the Slashdot lingo to have a go at you. Thanks for giving me a handle. :)

10:06 pm  
Anonymous evansthespy said...

Interesting to see today that none of the speakers dared single out Islam for citicism - everybody took refuge behind the ''freedom of speech for all'' mask.
The truth is it is only Islam which advocates that kind of censorship - but we are still to afraid to confront it.
Today's rally was a waste of time and effort.

10:07 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the BBC:

"Police said there had been no arrests but officers did receive a complaint about the message on one protester's placard.

A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said officers spoke to the man and he was later allowed to rejoin the demonstration."

How kind of the Police to *allow* the protester to rejoin the march. Presumably after they had confiscated his MoToon placard and given him a lecture of the wonders of diversity.

The 'later' part really concerns me; this suggests the protester was held for a period of time WITHOUT CHARGE!!!

How many of the Muslims inciting murder did the Police 'take to one side'?

No doubt Peter Risdon looked the other way as the Police threw their weight around.

You're a disgrace Peter, and you're no longer welcome in this movement.

10:12 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

I dispare. You let them stand at our rally and spout off about global 'civility' you let that woman speak. you let THEM hijack the rally. I'm inclined to agree with the poster just above me.

11:08 pm  
Anonymous muhayman jamil said...

Peter -

Well done!

It was respectable, civilized, and acheived what (most of us) had been hoping for. We stood up against censorship, and demanded our right to Free Speech.

And shame on the protesters who tried to shout down Peter Tatchell when he expressed views that differed from theirs. A bit ironic, that was!

11:24 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

It was respectable, civilized, and acheived what (most of us) had been hoping for. We stood up against censorship, and demanded our right to Free Speech.

It did damn all! the amount of people attending was more than halfed by a stupid move. We stood up for nothingbut dare I say it Dhimmitude. I formally withdraw my support for this. All that we hoped to achive has been mared by Peter's attempt to appease those who truly dont stand for free speech, those who support opression and tyranny. I dispare, I dispare....

11:35 pm  
Blogger samtheinfidel said...

Islamist fascists you will never win!!

11:41 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will B: Come on man, get it together. Surely you mean that you despair, you despair! Not dispare.

Yes, yes, I know - I'm a spelling Nazi. But the thing is, I agree with what you said. But I find it difficult to align myself with someone who - though correct - sounds like an idiot. If you see what I mean.

11:41 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Now now, i thought this was a march for freedom of expression. So Sayyida was not allowed to speak about Global Civility. Now who wants to censor who?

11:43 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

On another point Will B, you don't seem to like people expressing the desire to live under Shariah law. All this nonsene about freedom of speech, you just want to have a go at Islam don't you? Come on just admit it.

11:45 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Organiser Peter Risdon said: "We are in favour of free speech and not against Muslims. They are our neighbours and our friends.""

If you are REALLY in favour of free speech then you must be against Islam. Neighbours and friends do not want to blow people up or sympathise with the aims of those who blow people up.

However it seems that this was only a free speech for dhimmis

11:49 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Nice bit of ugly stereotyping there completley locked off from reality otherwise all non-Muslims would be dead by now seeing as 1 in 5 people are Muslims and if they all wanted to bomb their non-Muslim neighbours, they could probably get 4 each. But i don't want to get in the way of this great old hate mongering brawl you're having here. Take care.

11:52 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Will B: Come on man, get it together. Surely you mean that you despair, you despair! Not dispare.

Yes, yes, I know - I'm a spelling Nazi. But the thing is, I agree with what you said. But I find it difficult to align myself with someone who - though correct - sounds like an idiot. If you see what I mean.

I'm very sorry, just at a bit of a lose end over this all.

11:56 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

Now now, i thought this was a march for freedom of expression. So Sayyida was not allowed to speak about Global Civility. Now who wants to censor who?

she can say what she pleases but I find it hard to grasp that someone can come out and say those things while they dont speak out against unjust actions by their own people that are far from being civil.

11:59 pm  
Blogger Will B said...

On another point Will B, you don't seem to like people expressing the desire to live under Shariah law. All this nonsene about freedom of speech, you just want to have a go at Islam don't you? Come on just admit it.

I do want to have a go at Islam, and I want to have a go at the Roman Catholic Church as well, but under your proposals I could never do that, I'd get lifted by the thought police.

People can't and shouldn't live under sharia law because it goes against human rights. Sharia is the cause of this, it limits freedom, it limits peoples potential, it limits people's thinking. No law should exist which puts a road block in front of freedom.

12:05 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So stewards told people to stop displaying Danish flags? FREEDOM OF SPEECH RULES

12:07 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

LOL, all laws limit freedoms, thats what they are there for. Because if some freedoms weren't limited the strong would tyrannise the weak. It's interesting you like to try and patronise Muslims about their religion when you have a shaky grasp of the principles underlying your own political beliefs. Have you read Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Nietzsche. Please go away do some reading about liberal theory and postmodernism, understand your own thing, then let's think of you talking about someone else's.

12:16 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

I think if you read Sayyida's speech which is posted on the MAC blog unedited she actually condemns 9/11 and al-Qaeeda. You obviously weren't listening properly or maybe you weren't listening at all because you saw a Muslim woman on the stage and your eyes just misted over red.

12:18 am  
Blogger Will B said...

I think if you read Sayyida's speech which is posted on the MAC blog unedited she actually condemns 9/11 and al-Qaeeda. You obviously weren't listening properly or maybe you weren't listening at all because you saw a Muslim woman on the stage and your eyes just misted over red.

I don't listen to those who manipulate the weak.

12:21 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Oh and people lived under shariah law for 1300 years, in that period they lifted Europe out of the dark ages by translating and advancing the ideas of the Greeks, providing universities where free thinking and free speech could happen unlike in Christian Europe of the time. They were also the dominant political, military, economic and cultural power for all of that time. So i think people can and should live under shariah. But just for reference no i dont want to impose shariah law on 58 million mainly agnostic brits.

12:24 am  
Blogger Will B said...

LOL, all laws limit freedoms, thats what they are there for. Because if some freedoms weren't limited the strong would tyrannise the weak. It's interesting you like to try and patronise Muslims about their religion when you have a shaky grasp of the principles underlying your own political beliefs. Have you read Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Nietzsche. Please go away do some reading about liberal theory and postmodernism, understand your own thing, then let's think of you talking about someone else's.

HA. How very funny. I do no such thing, all I do is point things out, Islam and Mohammed do all the talking.

12:24 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Sorry correction to my last comment not "all of that time", i meant "most of that time"

12:25 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

You point out you have very little critical analyis skills or ability to appreciate other people's ways of life or even to understand them. You also point out that you are full of rage based on fear which is of course based on ignorance. Why don't you come and meet some Islamic scholars and take up all your problems about Islam with them. I promise they won't cut off your head or any other limb.

12:28 am  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

Here are some more photos of the demonstration. If you scroll down you will get a good look at the Danish flags which were on display the whole time, three or four of them.

In one of the pictures I counted 200 people. That may have been a quarter of the crowd in front of the speakers. In other photos you can see that there are a lot of people behind the speakers.

Maybe not a 1000, but well over 600 I would say.

The police however invented their figure of 250 which I saw on the BBC. I would hate to think they can't do their job any better than that so I hope they invented it!

You can see for yourself 200 people in one photo so you know there are a lot more than that in all.

12:39 am  
Anonymous One of the crowd said...

Well,it appears many people are ridiculing the event today as just a pathetic and meek wet fish (shrug). They are upset,crying like babies and throwing a hissy fit because this didn't turn into their much self hyped almighty "Street War" between Muslims and Kafirs?

Afterall, that is probably what they expected when booking their tickets to London before the changes occured on Thursday. At first, I was shocked at the changes like everyone else. Today,the relative lack of the cartoons proved to be the magic ingredient to make the demonstration "Constructive" rather than a "Destructive" demonstration.

I am well aware of Islam and it's pluses, aswell as the "dangers" in it's ideology. Perhaps that is why I still went to the demonstration anyway? I don't wish to see Muslim people and their children lying dead on British streets.

Obviously, some people did,the way they are going on here. They just want an almighty street war with Islam,and today they didn't get it. Several of the speakers criticized Islamic oppression and Islamic states (Despite the denials going on here) constructively.

Sure,I certainly expected a LOT more people and it was dissapointing to see that the vast majority of Britons don't really give a flying fuck about losing their rights to criticize,mock,and point out how Religion is increasingly under protection and stamping new laws on speech because it "offends" them. I "shouldn't" really suprise me.

At least we few went there and showed up. Many others chose to stay at home, huffing in dissapointment because it wasn't the street brawl that they so desired on the day.

After noticing how few people attended, it soon became irrelevant to me and I was fully focused on what speakers were saying. You could call the tiny crowd attendance one of "Quality over Quantity" perhaps?

One of my concerns about the rally initially, was that I would be sharing it with some nasty sons o bitches just itching to get in a headbutting ear biting scrap with any protesting Muslims who may have showed up.

On the day, it was a humourous and intelligent forum of speec, which I personally realized as the day went on, was the BEST response we could have ever given these nutters who screamed on the streets carrying plackards about - "Slaughter the infidels", etc.

How cheap the militants look now.

Sure, such Militants won't be "frightened" of us "meek" lot there today. But was installing fear in Muslims the the whole point of this demonstration in the first place?

For some,it seems it "should" have been,and they expose their true colours. P.S : BBC always gives violent nutters all the headlines rather than modest affairs. But what do we really expect? That's sensationalist media for you.

In my opinion,the way the demonstration occured showed the Militant nutters something important about enlightened society.

That we won't stoop to their level despite how much they stoke the fire. Alas, we are just mocked on the Blog for being a "slightly embarassed looking" lot (shrugs).

Well, so be it. Perhaps we were "listeners" rather than loudmouth screamers. Most of the speakers raised interesting points,and only one speaker seemed to be rather confused in her message (the "civil" free speech women). Others,really were thought provoking,and I came away from it enriched with ideas.

What stood out for me really, was the humour of the day, which captured the "essence" of the toons without hardly showing them.

The "Extremist" Bull fighter with the Danish flag dancing with the "invisible fanatic", cracked me up. Nice one, mate.

We ridiculed the total lack of humour and hot headed reactions of Islamic fanatics,today. We didn't stoop to their level.

Yes,we may not have even appeared on headlines (which I must admit is dissapointing). But should we REALLY be surprised? No public brawls occured and no nasty death threats were made, so why would the media be interested?

Overall, I would say today was a subtle introduction for further "intelligent" stands against intimidation by the militant minds.

Thugs didn't get their chance to publicly maul British Muslims. Long live humour.

12:42 am  
Blogger Will B said...

Oh and people lived under shariah law for 1300 years, in that period they lifted Europe out of the dark ages by translating and advancing the ideas of the Greeks, providing universities where free thinking and free speech could happen unlike in Christian Europe of the time. They were also the dominant political, military, economic and cultural power for all of that time. So i think people can and should live under shariah. But just for reference no i dont want to impose shariah law on 58 million mainly agnostic brits.

Big X for wrong. Sharia did nothing but hinder the people in their countries. There may have been a culteral flowering in the Islamic world but there is nothing to sugest that this is down to Islam. Most in fact came from non muslims who servedtheir muslim mastersin various capacities. Take the design of mosques. it was taken from the shapeand structure of byzantine churches. The dome of the rock was not only copied from the byzantines but it was built by byzantine craftsmen. And it was in fact Christians who introduced the works of Aristotle to the Muslim world, that man would be Probus of Antioch. the Cjhristian Huneyn Ibn Ishaq translated works of Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into syriac which then was translated into arabic by his son. The first arabic language medical treatise was written by a Christian priest and translated into arabic by a jewish doctor in 683 AD. The first hospital in baghdad was built by the Nestorian Chistiann, Jabrail Ibn Bakhtishu. Assyrian Chyristians founded a pioneering medicalk school at Guneshapur in Persia. And the world's first university may not have been Al-Azhar in Cairo but the Assyrian School of Nisibis! 7th century Muslim invaders of Persia were SO uncivilized that they exchanged gold for silver and used camphor a substance unknown to them in cooking. So you see the supposed 'golden age'of Islam wasn't really the Muslims, it was the Non Muslims working for their Muslim dictators. Oh and thank God your not one of the 40%...

12:45 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ismaeel: Your problem - and it's a problem shared by anyone who chooses to believe in a load of old hocus pocus nonsense - is that you simply cannot grasp that people like myself find it very difficult indeed to engage with the likes of you. Not because we're racist, or intolerant, or ignorant - or however else you might want to describe us. But because we simply cannot comprehend what it's like to believe in something that's so utterly ridiculous and false. It's like you're severely mentally ill. Which would be fine were it not for the fact that, at the same time as being deluded and mentaly ill, you also stand up and make all sorts of grand claims for the rubbish you subscribe to. And grand claims for why you subscribe to it. Islamic scholars? It's an oxymoron. How can anyone remotely intelligent - i.e. scholars - surrender and betray their intelligence so comprehensively by believing in something that is so utterly wrong? How can anyone attempt to intellectualise something that is so breathtakingly stupid? there's no point me reading about Islam or attempting to understand it because there's absolutely nothing to understand. No, wait there is - what's to understand is how so many people can be so outrageously gullible.

And that's the crux of it, Ismaeel old pal - you are utterly, completely wrong. That's the end of it - or, if we lived in a rational, decent world, should be the end of it. The sad thing is that I know I won't live to see the day when you - and all pathetic believers - are exposed for the (unwitting or otherwise) deluded fools you/they truly are.

So now, be a good boy - and take your nonsensical debates to those who share your ludicrous beliefs.

12:52 am  
Anonymous sonichost said...

Do you win the prize for smallest demo ever?

I'd give up chaps, leave organising marches to people who know how to do it.

1:03 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the crowd: All you're doing - as Risdon did before you - is kicking a straw man. If you take a moment to read the posts that have flooded this blog since the no cartoons announcement, you'll see - contrary to the (disingenous?) crap you spout - that the vast majority of people weren't interested in attacking in muslims. They weren't. It's as simple as that. They had many other, good, reasons to be pissed off. The way you talk, it's as if you're the lone voice of sanity on the BNP forum or something.

So why do you choose to claim that lots of people here wanted to attack muslims? And that they're pissed off because they were told they couldn't? So you can wallow in some imagined righteousness? So that you can point score? Because you're a liar? Because you're a twat?

Which is it?

1:07 am  
Anonymous aeneas said...

Where were you when freedom died? I was in Trafalgar Square under the watchful gaze of Lord Nelson! The rally was an unmitigated disaster to which very few people turned up. This should have been a showcase for those in parliament who oppose free speech!

I thank the organisers for getting the ball rolling, but I do not thank them for the 11th hour surrender on the cartoons. The cartoons were the essence of the demonstration and this surrender ruined our cause. To forbid people from bringing them was a shameful act (I appreciate that it was done with the best of intentions from people who had taken the responsibility to make the whole event possible – for which I sincerely thank them). But is was a serious mistake that ruined our cause.

The rally started with an exceptionally good speech from an exceptionally intelligent and perceptive lady from Iran. She was the hero of the entire event.

At the beginning of a subsequent speech things turned nasty! It was announced that the police had stopped someone expressing their views! There seemed to be some sympathy for the position of the police from the podium as the “offender” had dared to show some of the cartoons. The Iranian speaker highlighted this fact to the audience and suggested that the offending cartoon be distributed from hand to hand amongt the assembled as the police could not arrest everyboady! This was done with relish. The cartoon was passed from hand to hand by those who wanted to defend the cause of freedom. Solidarity was shown with the person who had been victimised. Eventually the cartoon seemed to “disappear”.

The next major event at the rally occurred during the speech of Sayyida Rend Shakir al-Hadithi. Her valuble contribution to the events was interrupted by the intervention of the police. A man had produced an effergy of our august and benevolent Prime Minister with a swastika around his neck. From my perspective this was dealt with unreasonably (bearing in mind the vile threats that were issued at a previous demonstration outside the Danish embasy when the police did nothing!). I ask the Metropolitan Police Commissioner is there double standards in policing in London where people can effectively issue death threats in an environment when people are in hiding in fear of their lives due to artistic licence, and the police do nothing, whereas anyone showing a picture of a long dead “prophet” or an effigy of our beloved leader are treated in such a shameful manner. Do we still have the freedom to speak our mind in Britain or do with now live in a dictatorship?

The man with the effigy was persistent and would not surrender and kept his prize (I neither know or care about what he was protesting about, but he was at a freedom of expression rally and deserved respect). The press were all over this scene. If there is anything in the Sunday papers from this event then I would guess that it would be this scene where the “honour” of our Prime Minister was “protected” by the Metropolitan Police. Is it now possible to criticise the Government of this country? I leave the answer to this question to you. The man was a hero, he maintained his position to cries of “leave him alone”.

In light of these events I have concluded that there is no equality under the law. Anyone who critices either Islam or the Prime Minister is regared as an enemy of the state; I’m sorry to say this but that is the way I see it in light of these events.

Our country has entered an new dark age of tyranny and oppression. The BBC offers a biased version of the news and the Government is afraid to upset anyone and fails to inist that existing laws are upheld. HOwever, it seems to seek new powers to surpress and subdue dissent from any quarter.

The action that is needed from this outrage is clear. The Licence fee for the BBC should be abolished, the BBC should learn to stand on its own two feet. I urge people to write to the BBC protesting that their news coverage is biased and that therefore the licence fee should be abolished. In addition to this I urge everyone to boycott the Prime Minister's party by voting for ANY other party or individual in the upcoming local elections. He needs to learn that freedom is non-negotiable and that he urgently needs to mend his ways. The Labour Party does not deserve to hold office as a result of these events. I don’t care who you vote for, just don’t vote for them!

Otherwise, re-write the Don Mclean song American Pie and substitute the word “music” with the word “freedom”. These are my personal views; I leave the rest up to you.

Long live freedom!

1:24 am  
Anonymous one of the crowd said...

Anonymous, please share your "many other, good, reasons to be pissed off" with me, so that I can reply properly (albeit, tommorow because I'm off to bed now...been a long day). As for the - "Why do you think we wanted to...". If you attended the event (I'm as of yet unsure if you did) then you would have heard virtually ALL the frustrations about Islam I read people on this Blog writing a loooong time before the day, being discussed, condemended, and what not.

So,what else did the mockers of this event want? That's what I wonder. Maybe there is something the speakers missed out on? Please share with me what you felt they neglected.

Yes, the cartoons U-turn was of concern at first. And, some of the stewards were going around checking plackards (which was odd considering we had an "appeal" and not a "demand" here not to take them). Yet, they were alllowed still. Just, the few people who did turn up didn't bring them for the most part because they don't think it would have added to anything they could say (and which "was" said by the speakers in words).

As mentioned above, the lack of cartoon "display" perhaps turned off the rabble from attending who could have attended using them as just a kind of "Sabre Rattling". What good would they have been to anybody then?

When I first heard about the Cartoon U-turn I thought it would make the event meaningless. But everybody knew what this was about. How could they not? The speakers spent 2 hours talking about the whole damn cartoon affair within the context of an enlightened society and what not. Cartoons were ultimately not needed on the day. That is what I and others discovered. Now if anybody angrily persists on showing them, I will have my suspicions about their motivations.

Our very subtle and low key event need not be the end though, Anonymous. Dont' worry. More demonstrations could occur if people are interested. Perhaps people were
expecting far too much right away?

Sonichost. Nobody can tell others to show up. They either do, or they don't. Most Brits obviously didn't give a toss about the issue and their attention was probably otherwise engaged. The few who did attend, made an effort at least. We had a LOT of space around us, for sure. But at least we didn't have to have droves of the "Bush is Evil" whiners filling up those huge gaps of concrete (as usually happens at these events).

More pictures of the event :

Photos of the Event

Did anyone else think Sean Gabb was one of the more impressive speakers today? (along with Maryam Namazie). Interesting approach.

1:39 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"On another point Will B, you don't seem to like people expressing the desire to live under Shariah law. All this nonsene about freedom of speech, you just want to have a go at Islam don't you? Come on just admit it."

What a total idiot.

So, is not wanting to live as a second class citizen under Islamic law and pay humiliation taxes as well as loose freedoms means that someone just wants to "have a go at Islam"?

HA!

What utter crap.

And anyone who defends Islamic law should look at the countries where this law is implimented. Islamic law is a disgusting thing that should never exist.

We have evolved past the 1st Centuary to a thing called secular law. No, we do not need religious police or Christian only cities, no we do not go to fanatic priests who punish us with stoning, hanging and lashes and torture for dissagreeing with their interpretation of religious law or for choosing to live a life where religion is simply a personal expression and journey, not related to politics and law.

1:49 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a total fuck up.

1:51 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Charles Martel

Man you are in need of big knowledge input. These Arab/Muslim rulers all have been appointed by Western regimes, namely US/UK. That is why they go and visit them to the white house every year for their yearly pilgrimage. And is also why they sell them the oil at the price the West demands. They are just puppets. And that is why they are happy to torture their own people and why they treat Westerners as kings when they enter their lands. Protecting them with their life.

In retun they get to stay on their throwns and have money in their pockets. Do you know that none have been democratically elected by their people. Except Iran, but now the US is busy preparing to attack this only 'democracy' in that region. And when Algeria voted for Islam, again the West moved in and installed dictators from the military.

And the West supported the Muhajideen in Afghanistan not out of love for them, but because they were fighting their own enemy, russian.

What about saving Kuwait? Oh yes just a love sacrifice. Infact, they lead Saddam to invade it and gave him the 'Green light' via thier embassy there, so that they could milk oil rich kuwait and demand protection money, like gangsters do. You need to see beyond the brainwashing of the media man. Learn to think for yourself and to see things at a deeper level.

You say also the kurds love america. Who supplied the chemicals weapons to saddam? Was it not done through Donal Duck (Rumsfield), with a picture of him shaking hands with saddam.

Also when they went into Kuwait, and when the iraqis mounted a revolt against saddam , who let saddam use his airforce to massacre the resistance? Can you guess?

You need to learn a lot about reality. Read books by Noam Chomsky, that would be a good start. He is an american professor, so not muslim or naturally biased. He is a thinker who has seen through the brainwashing machine of the media. I recommend his books to all people on this blog. They are free to download as well.

www.chomsky.info

Ali the Muslim

2:14 am  
Blogger Steven said...

You blew it here mate:

"Do you know that none have been democratically elected by their people. Except Iran..."

Thats when you lost alll credibility.

2:25 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Steve

How did i blow it man. In Iran, the shah was ruling, an american puppet king (much like the rest). Then the people had a popular uprising and overthrough that american backed regime. And then they elected their own leader and own system of life. This is democratic from the point of view that it is a people's election and not an imposed dictatorship.

True the people chose to make God Almighty the ruler and not to give themselves power of legislation. But that is their right and thier freedom.

I hope you understand what meaning of democracy i am using. In effect Muslims (or religions in general) elect God Almighty to rule them. The head of state just is reponsible for executing Gods perfect laws. Whereas in the West, the people worship Man and not God Almighty. And so they let Man rule and not God. So they end up being legislator as well as elector. And implement imperfect laws that they keep having to change.

Ali the Muslim

2:45 am  
Blogger Steven said...

Ok, go to Iran, say you think that the regeme should be changed because your freedoms are denied, and see what happens to you.

Most of the students there know the real deal. That regeme is not free. It is not a democracy, the elections are not fair or just, freedom of speech is not protected, and that is essential for a true democracy... It turns out that the UK is falling into a dark hole too.

Source
"Free elections alone are not sufficient for a country to become a true democracy; the culture of the country's political institutions and civil service must also change. This is an especially difficult cultural shift to achieve in nations where transitions of power have historically taken place through violence. There are various examples, such as Revolutionary France, modern Uganda and Iran, of countries that were able to sustain democracy only in limited form until wider cultural changes occurred to allow true majority rule."

Calling Iran a democracy is like calling Libya the only real democracy in the world.

Goodnight, moonbat.

3:08 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" In effect Muslims (or religions in general) elect God Almighty to rule them. The head of state just is reponsible for executing Gods perfect laws.+

That's where you are wrong, Ali

Only Islam does that. That is the difference.

5:23 am  
Blogger British National Party member said...

Ishmael wrote;

"LOL, all laws limit freedoms, thats what they are there for. Because if some freedoms weren't limited the strong would tyrannise the weak. It's interesting you "like to try and patronise Muslims about their religion when you have a shaky grasp of the principles underlying your own political beliefs. Have you read Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Nietzsche. Please go away do some reading about liberal theory and postmodernism, understand your own thing, then let's think of you talking about someone else's. "

"your own thing" Um... postmodernism is our thing? no... he may be misguided, but peter called himself voltaire, and presumably for a reason.

You go learn about freedom, then come back and talk to us.

7:16 am  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

I think i made it clear that i have read a substantial amount about your so called "freedom" and I opted for the true freedom of Islam. Oh and to just dismiss Islam without any argument or evidence as someone did earlier just shows the lack of ability these people who go on about the superiority of their values actually have to articulate them.
As for Will B, yes Christians and Jews and their civilisations did thrive under Islamic rule which rather disproves your view that they were "slaves"

12:52 pm  
Blogger Steven said...

ACtually, no they didnt. That is but a lie. Second-class citizenship is not good treatment.

If you want, you can be a second class citizen, I wont, and I do not considder it good treatment.

I reccomend that you spend more time learning about Islamic rule.

1:33 pm  
Blogger Ismaeel said...

Constant accusations, but nothing approaching evidence.

1:34 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:21 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:23 pm  
Blogger British National Party member said...

Evidence???

They are going to behead a Christian in Afghanistan for converting from your disgusting paedophile worshiping, terrorist spawning cult!!!

Here... heres some more f*****g evidence (not for the faint hearted)

http://bnpandme.blogspot.com/2005/11/horrible-post-seriously-guys-this-post.html

EVIDENCE!!!!

Go here; save your soul.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

"Faith Freedom International is a grassroots worldwide movement of ex-Muslims and all those who are concerned about the rise of the Islamic threat. "

4:16 pm  
Blogger Daffersd said...

Actually while Nick Griffin was talking to the white bull and making his point, while the other bulls chimed in with various comments and suggestions, a large hungry wolf bounded over and with cries of Allah Akbar ate all three bulls and Nick Griffin in the most horrible way possible.

11:54 am  
Blogger feste clown said...

Lets do it again next saturday.

Two Conditions -

a. 6000 to show up (if they want numbers, give 'em numbers)
b. you take me to the pub next time!
(didn't know where to go so ended up being chatted up in the Halfway to Heaven pub - could've said! lol)

Nice to see those of you who did attend, after speaking to by mates at work at least 15 said they would've gone if they'd know. Lets do it again. Lets do it big. Lets do it tonight??

8:18 pm  
Blogger Steven said...

If there is a rally for freedom of expression, please let me know. That means a rally for freedom of expression, not for avoiding offending people.

4:30 am  

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