We have a meeting with the Public Order Planning section of the Metropolitan Police at the start of next week, and will be discussing what banners and signs might say or show. Please check back for an update after the 8th March.
Perthaps I have phrased this clumsily, so to clarify it: we are required to have this meeting and we will be discussing what banners and signs might show, not in the sense of what we will have permission for, but of what we expect people to bring. We have already said that the cartoons will be welcome.
Showing the Danish cartoons is not illegal; incitement to murder is. Any objections to displaying the cartoons would have to be on public order grounds, but would present an interesting situation, and one that would not be entirely to our disadvantage.
This isn't a case of permission and we should support this. The police are there to keep law and order and need to know whats going on so they can do that. Make it clear that you will cooperate with them and will not be involved in any violence no matter what happens.
On the day, even if it seems like the police are ending the protest unfairly you should cooperate, they may be acting on things you don't know yet. Remember no matter what happens you will be on dozens of cameras at every stage and EVERYTHING you do will be judged, please don't let this protest be undermined by violent actions.
If any trouble makers like those who made threats outside the Danish embassy turn up and attack you, leave it to the police and the media, don't be tempted because that just might be what they want.
If we follow these rules it does not matter what happens on the day, if its banned, if its attacked or if it goes well, it will be on the news.
No, I am afraid it really won't make the news. Unless as has been suggested, the Islamists decide to turn up and attack us in which case *we* will have *caused* the violence. THEN it'll be a top story.
I have a VERY strong suggestion to make. That people be asked in advance NOT under any circumstances to bring any banner/T-shirt/placard which promotes a specific political party. Otherwise I pretty much guarantee you *will* end up with the BNP visibly in attendance, which gives the media another stick to beat us with.
We will get some news coverage. The issue is, how much exposure will the mainstream media, and especially the BBC, give us.
Be in no doubt that we will be trying to ensure that it is commensurate with the nature, scale and importance of the event and its supporters.
By refusing to allow this campaign to be diverted by any specific pressure groups or interests, we feel we are giving it the best chance of gaining decent exposure.
By declining to be drawn into too much debate about our exclusion of the BNP, and through our successful attempts to gather support from right across the political spectrum, we feel we have positioned it most favourably for responsible media coverage.
I'm all for Danish flags (available on e-bay, by the way) but don't forget that most victims of censorship in the world are non-Europeans. Let's have some pictures of prominent writers & artists currently in prison under repressive 3rd World regimes.
I'm all for Danish flags (available on e-bay, by the way) but we shouldn't forget that most victims of censorship in the world are NON-Europeans. So let's have some pictures of prominent writers & artists currently in prison under repressive 3rd World regimes.
Hmm, 'approved' banners at a free speech rally, what a paradox. But we DO need to remember that this may well recieve world wide attention and that we will be scrutinised. 'off key' messages will be the ones to make the front pages, so it would be good if we can show that we, as a nation can be trusted with 'the responsibility that goes with free speech' As for any factions hijacking or dominating, I have a feeling that this is going to be big. So big that no single group will make that big an impression. What about my 'NO SHARIA HERE' picture? Acceptable?
Here are some possible slogans for banners. Some funny, some critical. I don't believe that they are all appropiate. I'm interested in which you would regret. Perphaps posters should have titles that explain the comment "critiquing Islam" "poking fun at a Islamofasists", this would help people put them into context.
I've nothing against peaceful, law bidding Muslims, but have a big issue with the 40% that wish for Shiria Law.
"Make Cartoons not War!" - Simple enough
"The truth is out there ... but not in the UK papers" "Truely independent press is only on the Internet" and other variations of don't trust the UK papers
"Zionist rule the world! (and aliens ate my baby)" Ridicule of this belief that Zionist are everywhere. It would be good to describe them as 20 feet tall and breathing fire therefore easy to spot.
"Death to Iran! Tea and biscuits to Denmark!" Parody of all this Death to America! Death to Danish! nonsense. Perhaps we could make this Darth Vader to Iran or some other play on words.
"There is no justise in the Shiria" - People don't know what the Shiria truely is, they really ought to.
"Health information: Marrying your first cousin can lead to genetic defects and low intelligence" - Bitchy, but good advice.
"Islamafascism is the cancer, free speech is the key" - paradoy of europe is the cancer islam is the cure banners
"Belivers are irrational" - Unfortunately they all are because they have knowledge and understanding of the world born from belief that "you don't"
"New! Improved! Without the hatred, jealously and bigotory - Islam 2.0 loving the unbeliver edition." nuf' said
"Is it 72 virgins each or is it 72 'pass arounds'" Reference to the rape of women in France and pointing out that the scriptures don't specify this subtle point
"There is no honor in honor killing" - would be better to state there is no honor in killing, but it would go over the head of those it is critizing.
"Intelligent Design - putting the pseduo in science" - bash the Christians while we are at it
A list of names from the London bombings with the title "Died in the name of religion, Islam"
"Islam, bringing the 7th Centry to the 21st" - an aim of some Wabbi's is to revert to golden era of Islam
"Islam, putting the world at war"
"The Ummah is high on modern communications - The Internet"
"ANYONE that considers Shiria Law a good thing to implement in Western societies is an extremist"
"Pakastanis, you are greater than your religion, shake off your religous leaders and get some rational spokes people"
BTW you considered printing flyers and handing them out outside tubes etc? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> "Religous freedom comes with > responsibility" -
This is genius, best of the lot so far.
> "Ban free speech and let > feelings fester, what could go > wrong?"
Perphaps "limit" is better than "ban" as we will always be allowed to bash our policitains, in fact it appears that they are the ONLY group we are allowed to bash and not consider their feels one jolt. Is it their job to collected mud?
> "You have insulted Voltaire > (PBUH) we demand an apology"
I nearly fell over laughing reading this one, for those that don't get it PBUH stands for Peace Be Upon Him, which Muslims must say each time they mention Mohammad (I'm not sure why this is). As for 'Voltaire' read the introduction on this site.
> "Free speech without insult > is not free speech"
perphaps this would be said better as "Free speech without insult is limited speech"
> and from Napoleon: > "A people which is able to say > everything becomes able to do > everything."
It would be good to somehow spin this to comment on the advances we have made in our societies form the conspect of free speech, where as time has stood still in the Middle East for Centries.
Yes, I remember the story about pulling pictures of pigs from government offices, because of the "offence" they cause.
Personally I find women wearing a full burka offence as I think that women should be see as well as heard. Pity we aren't so keen to ban them.
Did you see the "Allah the ice cream" story? Amazingly it got very little press.
http://tinyurl.com/qg9wt
"Burger Kind, putting the Allah into Ice Cream"
My friend works for the social services and works with a Muslim who put in complaints to management that the annual Christmas party was offensive to him.
In the 18th century a Polish Catholic bishop and a poet, count Ignacy Krasicki wrote "True virtue is not afraid of satire". How about this for a banner?
Reading Wikipedia I noticed one of the BNP's policies is the death penalty for non-murder crimes and corporal punishment. Either im pretty uninformed or this is one of their lesser advertised polices. While I respect that the BNP is seen as almost a guard dog of Britain they have way too much in common with groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir and even Nazis. It would be hypocritical to rely on groups like the BNP to support freedom of speech when they may have ulterior motives and it would certainly test their acceptance of freedom of speech to ridicule some of their policies.
Am I the only one who didn't know about these policies?
We have made it clear that the BNP are not welcome at this march. They are incompatible with our aims and statement of principle. They do not support freedom of speech and the only reason why they are even thought of in connection with this campaign is that they have been agitating against Muslims. But we have made it clear that this is not a campaign against Muslims, it is a campaign in favour of freedom of expression. That sets us against anyone who advocates a theocracy, be it Islamic, Christian or based on any other religion. It also sets us against fascists, who do not advocate freedom of expression.
We are campaigning for a society in which debate can take place without anyone being thratened, hurt, killed or imprisoned. The BNP seeks to combine electoral politics with "well directed boots and fists".
How can we argue that the BNP are not welcome at a march for freedom of expression? Surely this will just make them determined to come? Have they said anything about it? I wouldn't like to see the BNP flag there because it would undermine the protest but its freedom of expression to wave it. I wouldn't like to see BNP people there because they are extremists but im not sure how it can be argued.
This might be good to include. The Ahmadis are a minority religion in Pakistan, they're free speech is restricted and they are banned from watching a London based TV station made for them. However anyone is free to say what they like about them including calling for them to be killed. Maybe we could get someone from the TV station to appear?
OK. How about "pictures for peace" "draw your cartoons not your weapons"
"there is no justice, just us" bit of a vigilante one that so maybe not. "Christian: I will die for what I believe in. Muslim: you will die for what I believe in"
I have made a free expression march audio ident for my on-line radio which I will also use as my profile audio link on blogspot. If anyone else wants to use it for anything, it will be available as mp3 download tonight. radio station is at http://www.segamike.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ (limited testing at the moment)
there seems to be two Laws in the UK. One for white English/UK people and another for aliens and migrants with black or brown faces. The former get persecuted and the latter get a carte-blanche to do what they like. This is Tony Bliars socialism in action and we are getting closer and closer to a police state. We NEED this FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION MARCH URGENTLY.
We want to make it clear that there is absolutely no racial element to this campaign. If that is your standpoint, please find some other outlet for it.
> Danes... probably the best > infidels in the world.
Very good! like this one a lot
> One for white English/UK people > and another for aliens and > migrants with black or brown > faces.
Err, I think that you are on the wrong site. Here we like Brown and Black people, here we dislike religous fundementalists that claim moral superiority and wish us to cow to their beliefs - irrespective of their colour.
Therefore I say down with the white Religous Right! keep your hands of science!
This is about ideology, not colour, stupid.
BTW has anyone else noticed that those that support Intelligent Design appear to be less intelligently designed?
friendly infidel, even though I am less intelligently designed I dare to object to your supposition - Albert Einstein would probably as well. Please remember what our march is all about - "if we do not hang together, we will hang separately" (B. Franklin). And it is not about ideology - it is about ideologies claiming superiority over others and usurping the right to supremacy and totalitarianism. On the race/colour issue I can't agree more! Amen
Your clarification is noted and agreed. I was to busy enjoying bashing that previous poster that FLIPPED ON THE CAPS KEY to MAKE HIS/HER POINTS!!! the inhumanity ...
I thought that: "This is about ideology, not colour, stupid."
... was more punchy than:
"This is about totalitarian, supremacist idelogies trying to subvert our freedoms, not colour stupid"
I think this thinking in slogans has started to affect my mind.
"Anonymous said... "Fuck" (someone was recently fined for saying that in public, the police dropped the charges but we need to set a strong precedent on this)"
How about
Free Unresticted Communication is Key
(with appropriate highlights of course!)?
"When the stakes are erected and the fires lit it will be too late for debate"
"Ban Censorship-I find it offensive"
"Born Free-Gagged for God"
"Remember when 'Cartoon violence' meant 'Tom & Jerry'?"
"Cartoon Violence-Real World Death"
"Truth does not fear Free Expression"
"Only Liars want Censorship"
"Truth is it's own defence-No Censorship"
A few personal opinions-:
I think we need to concentrate on short memorable phrases, and (much as it pains me as an athiest to say this) be careful not to over emphisise the relegious aspect too much or we will risk alienating people. Humour is good so long as it's not too subtle or obscure, irony has to be handled carefully, taken out of context may be used to misrepresent us. Anything that could be interpreted as racist or 'Islamaphobic' will do nothing but hurt the campaign.
Unfortunately I know from experience that a well behaved and good natured gathering is unlikely to get much press attention (I was at the peaceful demonstration by 3000 motorcyclists that rode to Parliment the week before the Countryside Alliance riot, how many people heard about that?!). But we don't want to be noticed for the wrong reasons, I think that discussing these ideas with the Police could be extremely valuable, they are the ones who have to mak judgements about what is acceptable on the day after all, mutual co-operation will make it a better day for all involved.
Sorry to have gone on for so long, hope at least some of it is of use.
How about " Where's your sense of humour gone?" or " What would your most famous iman...John, the bloke from 'our you being served think?" or under one of the cartoons "Do you think he knows there's a fuse sticking out of his head?"...or "What's Danish for ..only joking!"
The only mistake the Danish magazine made was to exclude Moses, Christ and Profit from their featurette.
I see the 4 great prophets looming out of a collective grave with vampire eyes, dripping fangs and Kitchener fingers, with the caption
'WE WANT TO DRINK YOUR BLOOD!'
This may seem confrontational, but in fact gives the four most contentious religions common ground and gives no cause for Muslims to feel persecuted. Not to mention sending a strong impartial Rationalist message for the first time in years.
Il en a coûté sans doute pour établir la liberté en Angleterre; c'est dans des mers de sang qu'on a noyé l'idole du pouvoir despotique; mais les Anglais ne croient point avoir acheté trop cher leurs lois.
Establishing liberty in England was a costly business, the idol of despotic power was drowned in seas of blood, but the English don't think the cost was too high. Voltaire: Lettres philosophiques
Qu’est-ce qu’un homme révolté? Un homme qui dit non...Quel est le contenu de ce 'non'? Il signifie, par exemple, 'les choses ont trop duré', 'jusque-là oui, au-delà non', 'vous allez trop loin', et encore, 'il y a une limite que vous ne dépasserez pas'.’ Albert Camus, L’Homme révolté
A man in revolt is a man saying No. But what does this No mean? It may mean 'this has gone on too long' or 'you're going too far' or 'there's a line you must not cross'.
Exiled Thucydides knew All that a speech can say About Democracy, And what dictators do, The elderly rubbish they talk To an apathetic grave; Analysed all in his book, The enlightenment driven away, The habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again. WH Auden: September 1 1939
With regard to organised rallies, I am seventy two years old and do not feel that I could drive long distances or even travel by train and thence to a meeting point in a strange town or city without a companion. My belief is that if a list could be published of people willing to give others a lift, sharing costs of course, many more people would be able to support the rally.
A Rally was certainly needed, I'm in london on that weekend anyway on business, so I'll be there.
I'd agree that it is important not to harass the police (even if they break up the demo) and not to provoke the muslim militants that will undoubtably be there, the more they get incensed and start acting like the thugs they are, the more good they will do our cause. I'd say its almost a certainty that the event will be watched by police spycams and they will be taping the event, lets make sure its the Islam bully boys they catch and who make fools of themselves.
Personally, if the BNP or the NF or the Satanic cult of Pink cow worshippers are there, does it really matter? You cannot exclude one group of people, as long as the march is held without banners proclaiming their affilliations.
Face it, we need everyone we can ger, from the BNP, to the Jews, to Hindis, to latter day saints...yes and even Satanic Pink cow worshippers
“This is an offence against Global Civility and a provocation to 1.6 billion Muslims. The continued irresponsible actions of the BNP in distributing leaflets with the cartoons on across the country are also provoking anger throughout the Muslim community”
How can we poke fun or paradoy this comment? The number 1.6 billion Muslims is thrown around all over the place. The global population is about 6.5 billion people, leaving 4 million non-Muslims. So how about
"Suppression of cartoons is an offence against global Civilization and a provocation to 4 billion non-Muslims"
Dress up in black as a 'RESPECT ENFORCER' maybe with it printed on the back. You could be holding someones arm with tape over their mouths and they could be wearing a t-shirt with something vaguely offensive with black tape stuck over it just enough so you can still recognise it. It should be only mildly offensive to highlight the idea of how stupid it is.
^^^ Actually scrap that, the shirt should be one of the cartoons so that if (unfortunately) the police do arrest him it would be brilliant photo op - "private respect enforcement officer hands over expression violator to a real police officer for processing"
Freedom of speech includes religion God doesn't need protection A true religion needs no protection Jesus didn't ask for protection No blood for Islam The West is great because of freedom Freedom of speech is no offence
A few based on the Muslim Action Committee 'Global Civility' slogans: We value our freedoms more than Muhammad How dare you restrict our freedoms? Islam should grow up Learn how to take criticism Islam wake up - free speech is here to stay! Islam learn some democracy Europe does not need Islam Don't they teach manners in mosques?
Funnily enough, one of the Muslim Action Committee 'Global Civility' slogans I agree with: Freedom to Insult = Freedom of Speech However, I'm not sure how they can claim that Muhammad is the founder of freedom of speech or civil liberties. Also, if 'Islam does not need Europe', what are they doing here? http://www.globalcivility.co.uk/Banners_08Feb06%5B1%5D.ppt
PS. Love the slogans about the sandal on the face of humanity and truth being its own defence.
The organisers of this rally (which I hope to attend) are entirely correct to bar anyone from attending who can reasonably be expected to be intending to cause violence and intimdate certain groups.
Clearly, the BNP are such a group, and should not be allowed to attend. Nor should any other groups of people who would conduct themselves in the violent manner of the BNP.
I'm sure we can agree that violence is not a legitimate form of expression.
Best of luck with the march. Some of the slogans are very good. Try not to get obsessed about Muslim attempts to curtail freedom of speech - Catholics, Sikhs and really all other religious groups do it as well, as well as (shock, horror) some secular groups.
okay how bout stop attacking the muslims, and maybe you should rethink some of your slogons because to be frank, you will be doing the same as the extremists. and also the shirt business is just stupid unless you want to get beaten up. why dont we for once show a little respect to other peoples religions, and not put the cartoon up because it is really disrespectful. we were offended when they came out with banners saying death to the us and uk etc. and the BNP will make it even worse, send em back to dagenham and let em stay their.
132 Comments:
Whoa, we're having a rally in favour of Free Expression...but we need permission for what the banners and signs might say? How free is that?
Presumably the jihadists outside the Danish Embassy in London had carte blanche for their bloodthirty threats!
Anyway, good luck, Voltaire - the essential thing is to get the rally approved so it can go ahead.
They can say whatever we like - any attempt to dictate what we can say on our own plackards or T-shirts will undermine the demo.
i agree, asking "permission" for the banners and signs sounds a bit much for a march about free speech.
Perthaps I have phrased this clumsily, so to clarify it: we are required to have this meeting and we will be discussing what banners and signs might show, not in the sense of what we will have permission for, but of what we expect people to bring. We have already said that the cartoons will be welcome.
Showing the Danish cartoons is not illegal; incitement to murder is. Any objections to displaying the cartoons would have to be on public order grounds, but would present an interesting situation, and one that would not be entirely to our disadvantage.
More later...
Have to agree with these sentiments, but it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if our PC PCs didnt let this go ahead. We shall see.
This isn't a case of permission and we should support this. The police are there to keep law and order and need to know whats going on so they can do that. Make it clear that you will cooperate with them and will not be involved in any violence no matter what happens.
On the day, even if it seems like the police are ending the protest unfairly you should cooperate, they may be acting on things you don't know yet. Remember no matter what happens you will be on dozens of cameras at every stage and EVERYTHING you do will be judged, please don't let this protest be undermined by violent actions.
If any trouble makers like those who made threats outside the Danish embassy turn up and attack you, leave it to the police and the media, don't be tempted because that just might be what they want.
If we follow these rules it does not matter what happens on the day, if its banned, if its attacked or if it goes well, it will be on the news.
Will carrying Danish flags be considered 'provocative' enough for them to be confiscated by the police?
There is a good flag shopnear me. I could put in an order.
Dansih flags will be very welcome.
Anonymous,
No, I am afraid it really won't make the news. Unless as has been suggested, the Islamists decide to turn up and attack us in which case *we* will have *caused* the violence. THEN it'll be a top story.
I have a VERY strong suggestion to make. That people be asked in advance NOT under any circumstances to bring any banner/T-shirt/placard which promotes a specific political party. Otherwise I pretty much guarantee you *will* end up with the BNP visibly in attendance, which gives the media another stick to beat us with.
We will get some news coverage. The issue is, how much exposure will the mainstream media, and especially the BBC, give us.
Be in no doubt that we will be trying to ensure that it is commensurate with the nature, scale and importance of the event and its supporters.
By refusing to allow this campaign to be diverted by any specific pressure groups or interests, we feel we are giving it the best chance of gaining decent exposure.
By declining to be drawn into too much debate about our exclusion of the BNP, and through our successful attempts to gather support from right across the political spectrum, we feel we have positioned it most favourably for responsible media coverage.
If we want to make the headlines, we ought burn a few cars and have a go at homosexuals ...
*joke*
I'm all for Danish flags (available on e-bay, by the way) but don't forget that most victims of censorship in the world are non-Europeans. Let's have some pictures of prominent writers & artists currently in prison under repressive 3rd World regimes.
I'm all for Danish flags (available on e-bay, by the way) but we shouldn't forget that most victims of censorship in the world are NON-Europeans. So let's have some pictures of prominent writers & artists currently in prison under repressive 3rd World regimes.
Hmm, 'approved' banners at a free speech rally, what a paradox.
But we DO need to remember that this may well recieve world wide attention and that we will be scrutinised. 'off key' messages will be the ones to make the front pages, so it would be good if we can show that we, as a nation can be trusted with 'the responsibility that goes with free speech' As for any factions hijacking or dominating, I have a feeling that this is going to be big. So big that no single group will make that big an impression.
What about my 'NO SHARIA HERE' picture? Acceptable?
Hi all,
Here are some possible slogans for banners. Some funny, some critical. I don't believe that they are all appropiate. I'm interested in which you would regret. Perphaps posters should have titles that explain the comment "critiquing Islam" "poking fun at a Islamofasists", this would help people put them into context.
I've nothing against peaceful, law bidding Muslims, but have a big issue with the 40% that wish for Shiria Law.
"Make Cartoons not War!" - Simple enough
"The truth is out there ... but not in the UK papers" "Truely independent press is only on the Internet" and other variations of
don't trust the UK papers
"Zionist rule the world! (and aliens ate my baby)" Ridicule of this belief that Zionist are everywhere. It would be good to describe them as 20 feet tall and breathing fire therefore easy to spot.
"Death to Iran! Tea and biscuits to Denmark!" Parody of all this Death to America! Death to Danish! nonsense. Perhaps we could make this Darth Vader to Iran or some other play on words.
"There is no justise in the Shiria" - People don't know what the Shiria
truely is, they really ought to.
"Health information: Marrying your first cousin can lead to genetic
defects and low intelligence" - Bitchy, but good advice.
"Islamafascism is the cancer, free speech is the key" - paradoy of europe is the cancer islam is the cure banners
"Belivers are irrational" - Unfortunately they all are because they have knowledge and understanding of the world born from belief that "you don't"
"New! Improved! Without the hatred, jealously and bigotory - Islam 2.0
loving the unbeliver edition." nuf' said
"Is it 72 virgins each or is it 72 'pass arounds'" Reference to the rape of women in France and pointing out that the scriptures don't specify this subtle point
"There is no honor in honor killing" - would be better to state there is no honor in killing, but it would go over the head of those it is critizing.
"Intelligent Design - putting the pseduo in science" - bash the Christians while we are at it
A list of names from the London bombings with the title "Died in the name of religion, Islam"
"Islam, bringing the 7th Centry to the 21st" - an aim of some Wabbi's is to revert to golden era of Islam
"Islam, putting the world at war"
"The Ummah is high on modern communications - The Internet"
"ANYONE that considers Shiria Law a good thing to implement in Western societies is an extremist"
"Pakastanis, you are greater than your religion, shake off your religous leaders and get some rational spokes people"
BTW you considered printing flyers and handing them out outside tubes etc?
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
"Show me a woman or gay man that doesn't fear Islam, I'll show you are woman or gay man that doesn't understand Shiria Law"
"Religous freedom comes with responsibility"
"Ban free speech and let feelings fester, what could go wrong?"
"You have insulted Voltaire (PBUH) we demand an apology"
"Free speech without insult is not free speech"
and from Napoleon:
"A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything."
I loved one of the comments from Have Your Say while the Religious Hate Bill was going through the Commons:
"I demand the right to be offended!"
as well as the "Free Piglet" on the lighter tone.
My greatest temptation is though the following credo:
"I am a Satanist. I demand respect for my religion. Burn those who offend Lucifer (PBUH)!"
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
> "Religous freedom comes with
> responsibility" -
This is genius, best of the lot so far.
> "Ban free speech and let
> feelings fester, what could go
> wrong?"
Perphaps "limit" is better than "ban" as we will always be allowed to bash our policitains, in fact it appears that they are the ONLY group we are allowed to bash and not consider their feels one jolt. Is it their job to collected mud?
> "You have insulted Voltaire
> (PBUH) we demand an apology"
I nearly fell over laughing reading this one, for those that don't get it PBUH stands for Peace Be Upon Him, which Muslims must say each time they mention Mohammad (I'm not sure why this is). As for 'Voltaire' read the introduction on this site.
> "Free speech without insult
> is not free speech"
perphaps this would be said better as "Free speech without insult is limited speech"
> and from Napoleon:
> "A people which is able to say
> everything becomes able to do
> everything."
It would be good to somehow spin this to comment on the advances we have made in our societies form the conspect of free speech, where as time has stood still in the Middle East for Centries.
> "I demand the right to be
> offended!"
Yep, that's a good'un
> as well as the "Free Piglet" on
> the lighter tone.
How about "Free Piglet! He's not Poo!"
> "I am a Satanist. I demand
> respect for my religion. Burn
> those who offend Lucifer (PBUH)!"
I don't like that one so much. I can see the idea ...
For serious get-yourself-killed insult try this quote:
"Hij noemde moslims goatfuckers" - ~ Van Gogh (PBUH)
> Polish Solidarity with Denmark
I don't get that one at all, are you Polish?
The Friendly Infidel, Piglet is not a Poo, especially in this armour:
http://relapsedcatholic.blogspot.com/2005/10/our-bulging-go-back-where-you-came.html
Yes, good guess about my nationality.
Yes, I remember the story about pulling pictures of pigs from government offices, because of the "offence" they cause.
Personally I find women wearing a full burka offence as I think that women should be see as well as heard. Pity we aren't so keen to ban them.
Did you see the "Allah the ice cream" story? Amazingly it got very little press.
http://tinyurl.com/qg9wt
"Burger Kind, putting the Allah into Ice Cream"
My friend works for the social services and works with a Muslim who put in complaints to management that the annual Christmas party was offensive to him.
In the 18th century a Polish Catholic bishop and a poet, count Ignacy Krasicki wrote "True virtue is not afraid of satire". How about this for a banner?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacy_Krasicki
Polish Solidarity with Danmark
How about something like...
'Freedom is a right. Religion is a choice'
or merely a choice
A completely irrational choice at that.
Well, I would like to see lots of pro-Danish stuff. Anyone know where to get Danish flags? Would add colour for the media photos.
Reading Wikipedia I noticed one of the BNP's policies is the death penalty for non-murder crimes and corporal punishment. Either im pretty uninformed or this is one of their lesser advertised polices. While I respect that the BNP is seen as almost a guard dog of Britain they have way too much in common with groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir and even Nazis. It would be hypocritical to rely on groups like the BNP to support freedom of speech when they may have ulterior motives and it would certainly test their acceptance of freedom of speech to ridicule some of their policies.
Am I the only one who didn't know about these policies?
We have made it clear that the BNP are not welcome at this march. They are incompatible with our aims and statement of principle. They do not support freedom of speech and the only reason why they are even thought of in connection with this campaign is that they have been agitating against Muslims. But we have made it clear that this is not a campaign against Muslims, it is a campaign in favour of freedom of expression. That sets us against anyone who advocates a theocracy, be it Islamic, Christian or based on any other religion. It also sets us against fascists, who do not advocate freedom of expression.
We are campaigning for a society in which debate can take place without anyone being thratened, hurt, killed or imprisoned. The BNP seeks to combine electoral politics with "well directed boots and fists".
How can we argue that the BNP are not welcome at a march for freedom of expression? Surely this will just make them determined to come? Have they said anything about it? I wouldn't like to see the BNP flag there because it would undermine the protest but its freedom of expression to wave it. I wouldn't like to see BNP people there because they are extremists but im not sure how it can be argued.
other anonymous, "im not sure how it can be argued." that's a wierd thing to say. it just was.
How about these:
"I drew a cartoon about Muhammad and all I got was this lousy fatwa."
"Lego my rights!"
"Civil rights are my religion."
"Moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue" - Barry Goldwater
"Denmark -- comin' atcha!"
"Denmark, Norway, France: the Axis of...Pastries?"
"Never in the field of human conflict has so much been done to so many by so few."
"I'd rather be blaspheming."
"Our oil barons are better than your oil barons."
"Live free or die." - New Hampshire state motto
"A priest, a minister, and rabbi walk into a bar...and don't kill each other."
"Uunngh...I shouldn't have eaten that last Rose of the Prophet Muhammad."
"If Muhammad saw what his followers were doing, he'd be spinning in his grave!"
"When in Rome...kill the Romans!"
"Denmark: Vikings wanted."
This might be good to include. The Ahmadis are a minority religion in Pakistan, they're free speech is restricted and they are banned from watching a London based TV station made for them. However anyone is free to say what they like about them including calling for them to be killed. Maybe we could get someone from the TV station to appear?
Thanks for the Ahmadi tip - we have contacted the TV station.
Some more possible banner slogans, though the wording may need trimming to get on placards:-
"I like my 'decadent' Western values - defend free speech
- no retreat to religious fascism"
"Defend Free Expression
- No apologies for satirising
religious superstitions"
"Defend Free Expression
- Keep Europe secular
- No sharia law here!"
"Stuff religious sensitivities
- this is the 21st Century
- no return to medievalism,
superstition and fear"
"Arrest Jihadists and
those who support fatwas
Defend Free Expression
from religious fascism"
"JACK 'dhimmi' STRAW
- defend our free expression
not your parliamentary seat!"
"TONY 'holy' BLAIR
- this is no boy scout
prayer meeting -
Defend Free Expression
from religious fascists"
And in the reasons why respect is not a valid reason for self censorship category:
"Don't Insult George Lucus
(Jedi's for Religous Respect)"
(Someone standing behind this banner should hold a cartoon insulting George Lucus and Jedism)
"G*d insults Athiests
(Athiests for Honour)"
"Everyone insults us! Stop!
(Agnostics Against Insult)"
"Idolatry: Putting insults against one man over real world problems"
TomPaine, I love your first choice:
"I drew a cartoon about Muhammad and all I got was this lousy fatwa."
I have two brilliant thoughts from amazing Wafa Sultan:
"Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me."
"The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010465.php#comments
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
OK.
How about
"pictures for peace"
"draw your cartoons not your weapons"
"there is no justice, just us"
bit of a vigilante one that so maybe not.
"Christian: I will die for what I believe in. Muslim: you will die for what I believe in"
I have made a free expression march audio ident for my on-line radio which I will also use as my profile audio link on blogspot. If anyone else wants to use it for anything, it will be available as mp3 download tonight. radio station is at http://www.segamike.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ (limited testing at the moment)
"Let's bash the wogs liberally"
?
"Sensitivity, tolerance and acceptance ... of insensitivity, intolerance and rejection. Those are the hallmarks of today's politican."
"If Islam is a religion of peace, what *exactly* is the Mujadeen?"
"Abu 'where's yours Handza?' quotes from the Quran"
"Bed Lining does it on the Quran"
Hey nonny-nonny,
What-ya-mean by ...
"Let's bash the wogs liberally"
Care to enlighten us with your wisdom and fine analysis?
"There is nothing more sacred than freedom"
another version of the Lego-theme:
"Legolize my Freedom of Expression!"
Sag.
It would be good if people could hand out copies of Dennis Kirkup's blasphemous poem of 1977. Maybe several banners based on passages from it.
"Say no to the mass Muslim boycott of Danish Bacon"
Muslims to Danes: "Lego of your freedoms"
Please promote a march for free expression in Toronto on March 11th.
Chicago is to have a march also on the 25th as well as London.
Good Luck everyone! Be proud and make a stand.
For visual aids I strongly recommend this site:
http://www.shopmetrospy.com/
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
I particularly love this one:
http://www.shopmetrospy.com/cNcgraphics/Product_361_PrSpare2.jpg
Happiness is freedom of speech!
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
Danes... probably the best infidels in the world.
Blasphemy is a victimless crime
there seems to be two Laws in the UK.
One for white English/UK people and another for aliens and migrants with black or brown faces.
The former get persecuted and the latter get a carte-blanche to do what they like.
This is Tony Bliars socialism in action and we are getting closer and closer to a police state.
We NEED this FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION MARCH URGENTLY.
We want to make it clear that there is absolutely no racial element to this campaign. If that is your standpoint, please find some other outlet for it.
"Repeal Blasphemy Law Before IT Repeals You!"
> Blasphemy is a victimless crime
Great slogan!
> Danes... probably the best
> infidels in the world.
Very good! like this one a lot
> One for white English/UK people
> and another for aliens and
> migrants with black or brown
> faces.
Err, I think that you are on the wrong site. Here we like Brown and Black people, here we dislike religous fundementalists that claim moral superiority and wish us to cow to their beliefs - irrespective of their colour.
Therefore I say down with the white Religous Right! keep your hands of science!
This is about ideology, not colour, stupid.
BTW has anyone else noticed that those that support Intelligent Design appear to be less intelligently designed?
friendly infidel, even though I am less intelligently designed I dare to object to your supposition - Albert Einstein would probably as well.
Please remember what our march is all about - "if we do not hang together, we will hang separately" (B. Franklin).
And it is not about ideology - it is about ideologies claiming superiority over others and usurping the right to supremacy and totalitarianism.
On the race/colour issue I can't agree more!
Amen
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
Polish Solidarity with Denmark.
Your clarification is noted and agreed. I was to busy enjoying bashing that previous poster that FLIPPED ON THE CAPS KEY to MAKE HIS/HER POINTS!!! the inhumanity ...
I thought that:
"This is about ideology, not colour, stupid."
... was more punchy than:
"This is about totalitarian, supremacist idelogies trying to subvert our freedoms, not colour stupid"
I think this thinking in slogans has started to affect my mind.
Friendly Infidel, your attention to my clarification is appreciated ;-)
and I like your new slogan.
Here is another one with the Polish bias:
"Freedom cannot be simulated" (Stanisław Jerzy Lec)
I also propose "Long Live Voltaire!" not only as a tribute to teh organisers, but also as a response to this:
"Muslims ask French to cancel 1741 play by Voltaire":
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/06065/666058.stm
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
"Fuck" (someone was recently fined for saying that in public, the police dropped the charges but we need to set a strong precedent on this)
"SHOULD we respect beliefs or MUST we respect beliefs?"
"When insulting religion is a crime, only criminals will insult religion"
"Blasphemy law can only cover one religion. They all insult each other!"
Give a beer and a bacon sandwich to those who insult the prophet.
"Tolerance is a two way street"
"Voltaire, bound and gagged in the 21st Century"
"R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to Muslims: don't critique our faith"
The Great Kartoons Debate: Bringing the Incredible Hulk to politics, "don't make me angry, you won't like me when I'm angry"
Islam: A religion of harm and pieces.
"Support the Religious Policeman: http://muttawa.blogspot.com"
"Know your Jihad: http://www.jihadwatch.org"
"God bless Denmark"
"God is not scared of cartoons"
"First they came for the cartoonists, ..."
"Should FCUK be served an ASBO?"
"Can a lack of Bacon Sandwichs, pictures of Naked women and beer lead to extremism? It would certainly leave me feeling very cross!"
"Respect my cartoons"
"Respect my cartoonist (PBUH)"
PBUH - "Publishing Blasphemy Unites the Haters"
When the last country in Europe embraces the new Dark Age, please turn off the Enlightenment.
(PBUH) People Belong to a Unitied Humanity
PBUH - Peace Be Upon Humanity
"FACT: 8 feet tall, fire breathing, Zionist, invisible lizard jooos run the entire worlds media
THEORY: Free speech and open minded debate reduce conflict"
How about the old Sun headline
"There Ain't Nothing Like a Dane"
"Anonymous said...
"Fuck" (someone was recently fined for saying that in public, the police dropped the charges but we need to set a strong precedent on this)"
How about
Free
Unresticted
Communication is
Key
(with appropriate highlights of course!)?
"When the stakes are erected and the fires lit it will be too late for debate"
"Ban Censorship-I find it offensive"
"Born Free-Gagged for God"
"Remember when 'Cartoon violence' meant 'Tom & Jerry'?"
"Cartoon Violence-Real World Death"
"Truth does not fear Free Expression"
"Only Liars want Censorship"
"Truth is it's own defence-No Censorship"
A few personal opinions-:
I think we need to concentrate on short memorable phrases, and (much as it pains me as an athiest to say this) be careful not to over emphisise the relegious aspect too much or we will risk alienating people. Humour is good so long as it's not too subtle or obscure, irony has to be handled carefully, taken out of context may be used to misrepresent us. Anything that could be interpreted as racist or 'Islamaphobic' will do nothing but hurt the campaign.
Unfortunately I know from experience that a well behaved and good natured gathering is unlikely to get much press attention (I was at the peaceful demonstration by 3000 motorcyclists that rode to Parliment the week before the Countryside Alliance riot, how many people heard about that?!). But we don't want to be noticed for the wrong reasons, I think that discussing these ideas with the Police could be extremely valuable, they are the ones who have to mak judgements about what is acceptable on the day after all, mutual co-operation will make it a better day for all involved.
Sorry to have gone on for so long, hope at least some of it is of use.
Islam, the Incredible Hulk of politics: "Don't make me angry, you won't like me when I'm angry ..."
What about my image of the statue of liberty in a burkha? It is quite funny....
How about " Where's your sense of humour gone?" or " What would your most famous iman...John, the bloke from 'our you being served think?"
or under one of the cartoons "Do you think he knows there's a fuse sticking out of his head?"...or "What's Danish for ..only joking!"
The only mistake the Danish magazine made was to exclude Moses, Christ and Profit from their featurette.
I see the 4 great prophets looming out of a collective grave with vampire eyes, dripping fangs and Kitchener fingers, with the caption
'WE WANT TO DRINK YOUR BLOOD!'
This may seem confrontational, but in fact gives the four most contentious religions common ground and gives no cause for Muslims to feel persecuted. Not to mention sending a strong impartial Rationalist message for the first time in years.
Blasphemy: The root of all progress
is my fave.
We cannot lose our freedom
unless we give it away.
How about Mohammed lighten up and EAT some PORK!!!!
Il en a coûté sans doute pour établir la liberté en Angleterre; c'est dans des mers de sang qu'on a noyé l'idole du pouvoir despotique; mais les Anglais
ne croient point avoir acheté trop cher leurs lois.
Establishing liberty in England was a costly business, the idol of despotic power was drowned in seas of blood, but the English don't think the cost was too high.
Voltaire: Lettres philosophiques
Qu’est-ce qu’un homme révolté? Un homme qui dit non...Quel est le contenu de ce 'non'? Il signifie, par exemple, 'les choses ont trop duré', 'jusque-là oui, au-delà non', 'vous allez trop loin', et encore, 'il y a une limite que vous ne dépasserez pas'.’ Albert Camus, L’Homme révolté
A man in revolt is a man saying No. But what does this No mean? It may mean 'this has gone on too long' or 'you're going too far' or 'there's a line you must not cross'.
Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.
WH Auden: September 1 1939
"How about Mohammed lighten up and EAT some PORK!!!!"
You're not funny or clever.
Oppss....
I that last remark of mine was directed at the individual who thought "How about Mohammed lighten up and EAT some PORK!!!!" is a funny thing to post.
"Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having." -- Lord Justice Sedley
Respect is Awarded, Not Extorted
Respect RIGHTS, not beliefs
2+2=4: Free Speech + Freedom of Religion = FREEDOM from FEAR
Who is Ibn Rushd Averroes?
With regard to organised rallies, I am seventy two years old and do not feel that I could drive long distances or even travel by train and thence to a meeting point in a strange town or city without a companion. My belief is that if a list could be published of people willing to give others a lift, sharing costs of course, many more people would be able to support the rally.
Yours faithfully,
A.G. Baggett
A Rally was certainly needed, I'm in london on that weekend anyway on business, so I'll be there.
I'd agree that it is important not to harass the police (even if they break up the demo) and not to provoke the muslim militants that will undoubtably be there, the more they get incensed and start acting like the thugs they are, the more good they will do our cause. I'd say its almost a certainty that the event will be watched by police spycams and they will be taping the event, lets make sure its the Islam bully boys they catch and who make fools of themselves.
Personally, if the BNP or the NF or the Satanic cult of Pink cow worshippers are there, does it really matter? You cannot exclude one group of people, as long as the march is held without banners proclaiming their affilliations.
Face it, we need everyone we can ger, from the BNP, to the Jews, to Hindis, to latter day saints...yes and even Satanic Pink cow worshippers
Just read this quote:
“This is an offence against Global Civility and a provocation to 1.6 billion Muslims. The continued irresponsible actions of the BNP in distributing leaflets with the cartoons on across the country are also provoking anger throughout the Muslim community”
How can we poke fun or paradoy this comment? The number 1.6 billion Muslims is thrown around all over the place. The global population is about 6.5 billion people, leaving 4 million non-Muslims. So how about
"Suppression of cartoons is an offence against global Civilization and a provocation to 4 billion non-Muslims"
to begin
with the lie
“i know god exists”
makes you an extremist
it’s impossible
to blaspheme
without proof
god exists
How about: (in the style of newspaper reviews that you see quoted under films/theatre)
"Shut Up"
- Global Civility
"We'll have your head!"
- Psychos Outside Embassy
"Its worse than Guantanamo"
- half the Middle East
Here a a few thoughts. I hope to make people smile. This shows better the absurdity of the intolerance of religion. How about:
1984 was a WARNING, not a MANUAL!
Censorship is double plus UNGOOD
Mohammed ate my Hamster...
My Saviour is a Bacon sarnie - Ketchup be upon him.
Piglet is innocent - Justice Now!
Blasphemy is my only real pleasure
Offensiveness is my only real talent
Your freedom of expression does not resemble our freedom of expression.
Logic dictates there is no point in blashemy
God is a vicious tyrant
Vikings are cool
Odin would rather like equality..., Please?
Death to anyone who feels strongly about anything.
Death to God!
Respect for the missing link!
"I am free" - Citizen # rot3444K1/ghn/x/563
Comments?
A few more.....
Peace and understanding to those who insult the Buddha.
Keep off my seeds of doubt!
The really hot chicks will be in Hell. How do I get THERE? Virgins are just tooo DULL!
I disagree with what I say, and I will defend to the death my right to be somewhat perverse.
What cartons of profit??
And more controversially;
Mohammed was a Sex Offender -TRUE
Dress up in black as a 'RESPECT ENFORCER' maybe with it printed on the back. You could be holding someones arm with tape over their mouths and they could be wearing a t-shirt with something vaguely offensive with black tape stuck over it just enough so you can still recognise it. It should be only mildly offensive to highlight the idea of how stupid it is.
^^^
Actually scrap that, the shirt should be one of the cartoons so that if (unfortunately) the police do arrest him it would be brilliant photo op - "private respect enforcement officer hands over expression violator to a real police officer for processing"
FREE Abdul Rahman!
“A faith is something you die for, a doctrine is something you kill for. There is all the difference in the world.” (Tony Benn)
Polish Solidarity with Denmark
VALUE PEOPLE, NOT IDEAS
See you on Saturday
Joss
BAN RELIGION, IT'S OFFENSIVE
Islamofascism - a sandal stamping on the face of humanity forever
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
how about this one?
IS LAM?
NO!
Freedom of speech includes religion
God doesn't need protection
A true religion needs no protection
Jesus didn't ask for protection
No blood for Islam
The West is great because of freedom
Freedom of speech is no offence
A few based on the Muslim Action Committee 'Global Civility' slogans:
We value our freedoms more than Muhammad
How dare you restrict our freedoms?
Islam should grow up
Learn how to take criticism
Islam wake up - free speech is here to stay!
Islam learn some democracy
Europe does not need Islam
Don't they teach manners in mosques?
Funnily enough, one of the Muslim Action Committee 'Global Civility' slogans I agree with:
Freedom to Insult = Freedom of Speech
However, I'm not sure how they can claim that Muhammad is the founder of freedom of speech or civil liberties. Also, if 'Islam does not need Europe', what are they doing here?
http://www.globalcivility.co.uk/Banners_08Feb06%5B1%5D.ppt
PS. Love the slogans about the sandal on the face of humanity and truth being its own defence.
The organisers of this rally (which I hope to attend) are entirely correct to bar anyone from attending who can reasonably be expected to be intending to cause violence and intimdate certain groups.
Clearly, the BNP are such a group, and should not be allowed to attend. Nor should any other groups of people who would conduct themselves in the violent manner of the BNP.
I'm sure we can agree that violence is not a legitimate form of expression.
Best of luck with the march. Some of the slogans are very good. Try not to get obsessed about Muslim attempts to curtail freedom of speech - Catholics, Sikhs and really all other religious groups do it as well, as well as (shock, horror) some secular groups.
okay how bout stop attacking the muslims, and maybe you should rethink some of your slogons because to be frank, you will be doing the same as the extremists. and also the shirt business is just stupid unless you want to get beaten up. why dont we for once show a little respect to other peoples religions, and not put the cartoon up because it is really disrespectful. we were offended when they came out with banners saying death to the us and uk etc. and the BNP will make it even worse, send em back to dagenham and let em stay their.